Kilrathi before WC??

Youngblood · 08-25-2005, 08:17

I dont know if any of you guys have read any books about the mankazin wars?? i came across one and the kazin are a race that are described just like the kilrathi from being tiger like taller then man and war like just wondering if any one knows anymore on the subject?

Maj.Striker · 08-25-2005, 09:28

Yes, you are correct. Loaf would be the best to answer this question but in his temporary absence let me try to give a good response. If I remember the story correctly, the Kilrathi were strongly based off of the Man-Kzin war novels by Larry Niven. (A good series by the way). The development of the name, Kilrathi, was a cocatenation of "Kill" and "Rat" hence Kilrathi. Regardless, in the subject of the Kilrathi race, Chris Roberts borrowed heavily from the Kzinzi. One thing I wish we had learned in more detail of was the role of the Kilrathi females in the Kilrathi society...obviously it is hinted at in various sources but never as fully developed as some of the other aspects of the race. Anyway, hope that answers your question, again I'm sure Loaf and other members could add some great supplemental material to what I've mentioned.

Youngblood · 08-25-2005, 09:33

thank god for that i thought i dreamt it all up! i even recall readin a ring world novel with the same race in well at least i think so!

Bandit LOAF · 08-25-2005, 10:19

The Kzinti are one of the signature races in Larry Niven's Known Space universe. They first appeared (I believe) in the 1966 short story "The Warriors", from which Wing Commander's 'Iason incident' appears to borrow heavily. Many people are familiar with them for two reasons:

* One of the characters in Niven's most famous book, Ringworld (another Known Space story) was a Kzin.

* Niven adapted another one of his short stories involving the Kzin, "The Soft Weapon", into a Star Trek Animated Series episode called "The Slaver Weapon". The Kzin haven't appeared in any live action 'Trek, but they're referenced in a good deal of tie in material (particularly fandom-related stuff from the seventies).

The "Man Kzin" books you may be familiar with are collections of short stories by different authors that are based around earlier references that the Kzinti and Earth fought several wars (like War World for Pournelle's CoDominium or Worlds of Honor for Weber's Honor Harrington).

There've been ten numbered 'Man Kzin' books (with an eleventh due later this year), two 'best of' collections (Best of All Possible Wars and Houses of the Kzinti) and three novels spun off from various stories (A Darker Geometry, The Children's Hour and Cathouse).

The quality of the stories runs the whole spectrum... and unlike the Kzinti references in older Known Space stories, they're *contemporary* to Wing Commander - with the first Man Kzin Wars book appearing around the time of the original Wing Commander game. Still, if you love space cats, they're the way to go.

Now, to the best of my knowledge no one has actually owned up to 'stealing' the Kzinti for use in Wing Commander - science fiction is certainly full of talking cats... I think the biggest connection anyone's ever made is the similarity between The Warriors and the attack on the TCS Iason.

Youngblood · 08-25-2005, 11:05

Loaf i kneel down before you!! your are trully a god!!!!! the thing is only ever read one ringworld book cant remember which one and i came across it when i was playing WC3 and my old man saw hobbes and told me about the man-kazin wars and ringworld i thin i have an urge to track all the books down now!

Edfilho · 08-25-2005, 12:10

impressive how he still can't spell Kzin even after reading extensive posts on the subject.

I remember previous threads on the subject, and more detailed paralels were drawn, IIRC, but it is indeed clear that the Kilrathi aren't just a ripoff.

Youngblood · 08-25-2005, 12:57

good point! spelling has never been a strong point and i am dislexic why is it such a hard word to spell!?!?!?!

ChrisReid · 08-25-2005, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maj.Striker

Yes, you are correct. Loaf would be the best to answer this question but in his temporary absence let me try to give a good response. If I remember the story correctly, the Kilrathi were strongly based off of the Man-Kzin war novels by Larry Niven. (A good series by the way). The development of the name, Kilrathi, was a cocatenation of "Kill" and "Rat" hence Kilrathi.

I think it was a combination of "Kill" and "Wrath." I hope I didn't make that up. I'm pretty sure "Rat" never played a part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Youngblood

good point! spelling has never been a strong point and i am dislexic why is it such a hard word to spell!?!?!?!

The point was that it's not hard to spell when it's spelled out for you numerous times right here. People tend to get annoyed because in that case, dyslexic or not, it just looks lazy.

Alch · 08-31-2005, 01:34

Concerning female roles in Kilrathi culture, seems strange to see how actual feline packs are usually led by females (from domestic cats to lions!!)

Edfilho · 09-01-2005, 07:34

Well, we see a little about the females in Freedom flight, isn't it? And the female kilratih lead the religous organization too...

AD · 09-01-2005, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edfilho

the female kilratih lead the religous organization too...

Yes. This is seen in episodes of WCA(tv) as well as a wc1-sm2 (or is it wc2?) cutscene (with the priestess with 6.... ) Anyway I believe the WCP intro refers to Kilrathi priestesses as well (but I would have to check that one).

Devari · 09-04-2005, 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisReid

I think it was a combination of "Kill" and "Wrath." I hope I didn't make that up. I'm pretty sure "Rat" never played a part.

That's correct, Chris Roberts came up with the name "Kilrathi" by combining "kill" and "wrath". He mentioned in an interview that it was originally intended as a temporary placeholder name when he was developing the game, but apparently he decided to use the name in the actual game. Here's the link to an earlier thread:

http://www.crius.net/zone/showthread.php?threadid=10582

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisReid

The point was that it's not hard to spell when it's spelled out for you numerous times right here. People tend to get annoyed because in that case, dyslexic or not, it just looks lazy.

I've seem some ridiculous examples of abysmally poor spelling on some boards, so not being able to spell "Kzin" correctly really doesn't bother me much.

hakatsuru · 09-06-2005, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisReid

I think it was a combination of "Kill" and "Wrath." I hope I didn't make that up. I'm pretty sure "Rat" never played a part.

The point was that it's not hard to spell when it's spelled out for you numerous times right here. People tend to get annoyed because in that case, dyslexic or not, it just looks lazy.

Neither nakedness nor matted hair
nor mud nor the refusal of food
nor sleeping on the bare ground
nor dust & dirt nor squatting austerities
cleanses the mortal
who's not gone beyond doubt.

If, though adorned, one lives in tune
with the chaste life
--calmed, tamed & assured--
having put down the rod toward all beings,
he's a contemplative
a brahmin
a monk.

08-25-2005, 08:17	#1
Youngblood 1st Lieutenant Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In the middle east on Ops! Posts: 160	Kilrathi before WC?? I dont know if any of you guys have read any books about the mankazin wars?? i came across one and the kazin are a race that are described just like the kilrathi from being tiger like taller then man and war like just wondering if any one knows anymore on the subject?

08-25-2005, 10:19	#4
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 25,571	The Kzinti are one of the signature races in Larry Niven's Known Space universe. They first appeared (I believe) in the 1966 short story "The Warriors", from which Wing Commander's 'Iason incident' appears to borrow heavily. Many people are familiar with them for two reasons: * One of the characters in Niven's most famous book, Ringworld (another Known Space story) was a Kzin. * Niven adapted another one of his short stories involving the Kzin, "The Soft Weapon", into a Star Trek Animated Series episode called "The Slaver Weapon". The Kzin haven't appeared in any live action 'Trek, but they're referenced in a good deal of tie in material (particularly fandom-related stuff from the seventies). The "Man Kzin" books you may be familiar with are collections of short stories by different authors that are based around earlier references that the Kzinti and Earth fought several wars (like War World for Pournelle's CoDominium or Worlds of Honor for Weber's Honor Harrington). There've been ten numbered 'Man Kzin' books (with an eleventh due later this year), two 'best of' collections (Best of All Possible Wars and Houses of the Kzinti) and three novels spun off from various stories (A Darker Geometry, The Children's Hour and Cathouse). The quality of the stories runs the whole spectrum... and unlike the Kzinti references in older Known Space stories, they're contemporary to Wing Commander - with the first Man Kzin Wars book appearing around the time of the original Wing Commander game. Still, if you love space cats, they're the way to go. Now, to the best of my knowledge no one has actually owned up to 'stealing' the Kzinti for use in Wing Commander - science fiction is certainly full of talking cats... I think the biggest connection anyone's ever made is the similarity between The Warriors and the attack on the TCS Iason. __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

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08-25-2005, 09:28	#2
Maj.Striker Swabbie Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Des Moines Posts: 2,067	Yes, you are correct. Loaf would be the best to answer this question but in his temporary absence let me try to give a good response. If I remember the story correctly, the Kilrathi were strongly based off of the Man-Kzin war novels by Larry Niven. (A good series by the way). The development of the name, Kilrathi, was a cocatenation of "Kill" and "Rat" hence Kilrathi. Regardless, in the subject of the Kilrathi race, Chris Roberts borrowed heavily from the Kzinzi. One thing I wish we had learned in more detail of was the role of the Kilrathi females in the Kilrathi society...obviously it is hinted at in various sources but never as fully developed as some of the other aspects of the race. Anyway, hope that answers your question, again I'm sure Loaf and other members could add some great supplemental material to what I've mentioned.

08-25-2005, 09:33	#3
Youngblood 1st Lieutenant Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In the middle east on Ops! Posts: 160	thank god for that i thought i dreamt it all up! i even recall readin a ring world novel with the same race in well at least i think so!

08-25-2005, 11:05	#5
Youngblood 1st Lieutenant Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In the middle east on Ops! Posts: 160	Loaf i kneel down before you!! your are trully a god!!!!! the thing is only ever read one ringworld book cant remember which one and i came across it when i was playing WC3 and my old man saw hobbes and told me about the man-kazin wars and ringworld i thin i have an urge to track all the books down now!

08-25-2005, 12:10	#6
Edfilho Cry some more! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil Posts: 3,522	impressive how he still can't spell Kzin even after reading extensive posts on the subject. I remember previous threads on the subject, and more detailed paralels were drawn, IIRC, but it is indeed clear that the Kilrathi aren't just a ripoff.

08-25-2005, 12:57	#7
Youngblood 1st Lieutenant Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In the middle east on Ops! Posts: 160	good point! spelling has never been a strong point and i am dislexic why is it such a hard word to spell!?!?!?!

08-31-2005, 01:34	#9
Alch Cadet Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 62	Concerning female roles in Kilrathi culture, seems strange to see how actual feline packs are usually led by females (from domestic cats to lions!!)

09-01-2005, 07:34	#10
Edfilho Cry some more! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil Posts: 3,522	Well, we see a little about the females in Freedom flight, isn't it? And the female kilratih lead the religous organization too...