The WC4 'Price Of Freedom' Movie Project

[Queeg]

Morning all, now that my first project 'Heart Of The Tiger' is finished I'm eager to begin a new one, and what better than it's popular sequel 'The Price Of Freedom'. I realise there are already plenty versions of Wing Commander IV already being / have been made, but in that case, what is the harm in one more?

As you probably already know, WC4 has significantly better video quality than WC3. Since it has been released on DVD, you can't get much better without going High Def. Now my software allows me to edit the VOBs directly from the discs (ripped to my hard drive) so there should be no quality loss. Also the software allows me to make use of all 5.1 audio channels from the VOBs so the end result should be a true movie experience.

I have obtained the WC4 dvds and I've created an intro so far for a test run. So before I bore you to tears with this long post, here is the first 3 minutes of my Wing Commander IV movie!

WC4 3 Minute Introduction Sample

Backup Link (limited bandwidth, use save target as)

There shall be some ingame footage following soon when I have worked out the details. Also I'm not sure about the recap at the start of the film, it seems a bit unnecessary but see what you think if you take a look.

[BrynS]

Well, in terms of technical/editing proficiency and production quality your WC4 project looks promising, Queeg.

Although there's little newly edited material (perfectly understandable at this stage given the content you've compiled) in this sample, apart from the brief WC3 overview, to show the creative choices you intend to make in moulding your movie, you've evidently been able to maintain a very high-quality workflow and final compressed edit with seamless transitions, while your titling edits also integrate rather smoothly. There's a very small amount of letterboxing (i.e. the vertical resolution of the WC3 scenes is slightly below that of the WC4 scenes) during the WC3 scenes, but it's not really that noticeable.

I like your WC3 recap idea because it opens up some connectivity options in terms of themes and characters between WC3 and WC4 depending on how it is used, however as it stands it's too short and abrupt. A minute or two of exposition might sound unwiedly, but it could really establish the backdrop for your interpretation of WC4.

You could emphasize Tolwyn's determination ("last ditch effort to win the war outright", "what would you do if you had the biggest gun in the universe", etc) regarding the Behemoth and his desire to win whatever the cost and juxtapose it with his slide to megalomania in WC4 or at least set the parameters for the character arc; similarly with Blair, Maniac, Eisen, Melek et al one could show the progression. Perhaps interspersing your WC4 footage with some WC3 scenes via the oft-reviled flashback could be used? Either way, it further differentiates your version from the others under development, although I wouldn't let that dictate whether or not you include it -- if you feel that it detracts from the film, then cut it.

Also, instead of titling the WC3 exposition as "Previously [sic] The Kilrathi War" which makes it sound like a serialisation, rather I would suggest you could preface the initial WC3 scenes with a date, such as "2669.132" or "Late 2669" and then do the same with first WC4 scene, e.g. "2673.217" to try and better integrate the scenes .

Anyway, looking forward to seeing how this progresses.

Cheers,

Bryn

[Queeg]

Originally Posted by BrynS

Well, in terms of technical/editing proficiency and production quality your WC4 project looks promising, Queeg.

Although there's little newly edited material (perfectly understandable at this stage given the content you've compiled) in this sample, apart from the brief WC3 overview, to show the creative choices you intend to make in moulding your movie, you've evidently been able to maintain a very high-quality workflow and final compressed edit with seamless transitions, while your titling edits also integrate rather smoothly. There's a very small amount of letterboxing (i.e. the vertical resolution of the WC3 scenes is slightly below that of the WC4 scenes) during the WC3 scenes, but it's not really that noticeable.

I like your WC3 recap idea because it opens up some connectivity options in terms of themes and characters between WC3 and WC4 depending on how it is used, however as it stands it's too short and abrupt. A minute or two of exposition might sound unwiedly, but it could really establish the backdrop for your interpretation of WC4.

You could emphasize Tolwyn's determination ("last ditch effort to win the war outright", "what would you do if you had the biggest gun in the universe", etc) regarding the Behemoth and his desire to win whatever the cost and juxtapose it with his slide to megalomania in WC4 or at least set the parameters for the character arc; similarly with Blair, Maniac, Eisen, Melek et al one could show the progression. Perhaps interspersing your WC4 footage with some WC3 scenes via the oft-reviled flashback could be used? Either way, it further differentiates your version from the others under development, although I wouldn't let that dictate whether or not you include it -- if you feel that it detracts from the film, then cut it.

Also, instead of titling the WC3 exposition as "Previously [sic] The Kilrathi War" which makes it sound like a serialisation, rather I would suggest you could preface the initial WC3 scenes with a date, such as "2669.132" or "Late 2669" and then do the same with first WC4 scene, e.g. "2673.217" to try and better integrate the scenes .

Anyway, looking forward to seeing how this progresses.

Cheers,

Bryn

Yes I've decided not to go with the WC3 recap afterall. Any WC3 footage is just adding degraded video quality to the project, the flashback idea is brilliant though. As those clips could be black and white and quality loss would be less noticable. Hard part is finding where to put them.

Thank you for your feedback on the introduction, I'm not entirely satisfied with the titles but I don't know what font the intro sequence uses
However, here is something else you may be interested in, I found a good way of capturing the ingame footage using CamStudio. This way I don't get the frame drops that I did in Dosbox. Here is a test video demonstrating the inflight video test (not an actual mission).

Inflight Test Sequence

The vid is a little short but you get some idea. I am attempting to edit the missions in 5.1 surround sound so they have the same sound format as the FMV. I have attempted to move the sounds around to match what's happening on the screen (gun shots going left to right, ship takeoff - sound comes from behind then to the front center as the craft gets further away). Only trouble is Vista doesn't like my sound card and I'm using 3rd party drivers, so it's hard to tell if I'm getting true surround sound through my speakers. Anyway, look forward to hearing any peoples thoughts.

[BrynS]

I'm not sure which font is used for the titles, but suspect that Origin either created it in-house or purchased it from one of the commercial libraries (e.g. Pacific Title et al) -- this might be mentioned in the WC4 credits. There may very well be some free fonts online that offer a close resemblance to it via some tweaking and expanding or condensing of the character spacing? I've tried a version of Camtasia before and found it effective at screen capturing; say for recording the OS desktop or a specified window/area of the screen, so presumably you've used it to record footage from WC4 running in a window? There still seems to be a few dropped frames here and there, but it's not that bad.

The external, in-flight samples look fine and the cropping you have done to blend with the FMV resolution should ease FMV-Inflight-FMV transitions, although I think as pointed out before, the loss of portions of the HUD/"cockpit" view is not always preferable to some -- I personally don't mind. Have you also stretched the aspect ratio slightly to reduce the vertical cropping?

Which sound card do you have? I qualified for Vista Business edition through Microsoft's coupon scheme, but will probably delay installation for a while longer, as some of my peripherals (most importantly, my printer) have yet to receive signed Vista 64-bit drivers last time I checked.

Cheers,

Bryn

[Queeg]

Originally Posted by BrynS

I'm not sure which font is used for the titles, but suspect that Origin either created it in-house or purchased it from one of the commercial libraries (e.g. Pacific Title et al) -- this might be mentioned in the WC4 credits. There may very well be some free fonts online that offer a close resemblance to it via some tweaking and expanding or condensing of the character spacing?

Yes, I will need to record the credits as they are ingame and not FMV so the font is probably mentioned there.

I've tried a version of Camtasia before and found it effective at screen capturing; say for recording the OS desktop or a specified window/area of the screen, so presumably you've used it to record footage from WC4 running in a window? There still seems to be a few dropped frames here and there, but it's not that bad.

Yeah, I get about 20fps which is quite acceptable, although to achieve that the capture quality has been compromised. I switch to a window before recording which means I can keep an eye on the fps. However, I will be getting a new computer soon so I plan to reshoot the missions so there's no lag or quality loss. It will be a few weeks but if a jobs worth doing, it's worth doing well.

The external, in-flight samples look fine and the cropping you have done to blend with the FMV resolution should ease FMV-Inflight-FMV transitions, although I think as pointed out before, the loss of portions of the HUD/"cockpit" view is not always preferable to some -- I personally don't mind. Have you also stretched the aspect ratio slightly to reduce the vertical cropping?

Fortunately I have found a way around the cockpit loss. When you eject on WC4 there's a cockpit view in an FMV sequence where Eisen or Pliers yells at you for bailing. By overlaying the regular inflight cockpits it looks like a full cockpit with the enemies still flying about.

Anyway I'll since these missions will be refilmed I may aswell post one to show what I mean

Mission 2 beta (follow Eisen to intrepid)

Which sound card do you have? I qualified for Vista Business edition through Microsoft's coupon scheme, but will probably delay installation for a while longer, as some of my peripherals (most importantly, my printer) have yet to receive signed Vista 64-bit drivers last time I checked.

Cheers,

Bryn

My soundcard is Creative Soundblaster Live 5.1. You would think after about 5 years of development they could make an operating system with the same if not more compatibility than XP.

Anyway on a side note, the FMV clips have all been imported into the project file so I just need the missions before I can proof view it for the first time. Anyway, I hope you remain interested in the project .

[Raptor_Pilot]

Hey guys, been away for awile, hows the movie goin?

[Queeg]

Originally Posted by Raptor_Pilot

Hey guys, been away for awile, hows the movie goin?

All the DVD videos that shall be used have been edited, I just need to record the missions and then put it all together. The missions are on hold until my new PC arrives (ordered last week).

[BrynS]

Hey Queeg,

I like the Mission 2 beta sample you cooked up using the overlays. Is the clarity of the overlayed gameplay likely to increase once you start using your new PC or is the quality of the overlays dependent on your editing/post-production software? Now that you have most of the DVD film footage set aside, how long do you anticipate your movie to be once the gameplay bits have been edited in or alternatively, what sort of length are you aiming for?

Cheers,

Bryn

[Queeg]

Originally Posted by BrynS

Hey Queeg,

I like the Mission 2 beta sample you cooked up using the overlays. Is the clarity of the overlayed gameplay likely to increase once you start using your new PC or is the quality of the overlays dependent on your editing/post-production software? Now that you have most of the DVD film footage set aside, how long do you anticipate your movie to be once the gameplay bits have been edited in or alternatively, what sort of length are you aiming for?

Cheers,

Bryn

I am determined not to go over 2 hours. The overlays may improve but I don't think the quality of gameplay footage will increase much, it's mainly just to get a full frame rate. However, I think the biggest problem was that the FMV cockpit was moving whilst thing's were happening outside. Freezing the picture should at least reduce interference and make a cleaner picture. I'll just have to keep playing around until I'm happy with it. Glad you liked the mission though

[Darkelf]

Hey great job so far Queeg. I'm confident you will make a great movie. WC4 is already fantastic to begin with, but your know-how in editing will make this another masterpiece.

One thing I immediately noticed was the jerky framerate in the intro movie (due to converting 29.97 fps NTSC to 25 fps PAL) but there's not much you can do about that, except for some complicated framerate conversions. I'm in the middle of working that out myself actually and haven't really found the perfect way to get a smooth framerate. So far Canopus Procoder 2.0 gives me the best results, but there should be better (cheaper) solutions.

Mission 2 beta works pretty good IMO. The overlay gives the mission gfx a very cinematic feel, like something straight out of a Hollywood movie.

Damn wish I was able to get off my butt and do something like this, but I already have much to do and so little time.

I'm looking forward to a DVD style encoding with full 5.1 sound if you eventually decide to make one. Man that would be sweet. Would gladly sacrifice my limited bandwidth for just this.

Keep us posted on your progress Queeg. Salute!

[Queeg]

The 5.1 sound is actually the part I find easiest . I think i'll leave the video at it's native fps of 30 or 29.97 etc to smoothen out things. My new computer arrived a couple of days ago and now it's all setup I can continue working . Glad the original missions are on the right track, I'll get to work on them now.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

the image quallity is very nice i must conclude

only when the Medical frigate comes flying by I get these frame drops, just as if the frigate is skipping instead of flying that idea, I'm not sure if that can be fixxed?

for the rest it looks very prommising Queeg!

May The Force be With You on this one

[rtheriaque]

How will your branch choices be made? I watched the WCIII movie quite some time ago, but I can't recall if you followed the novel or not.

[Darkelf]

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan Kenobi

only when the Medical frigate comes flying by I get these frame drops, just as if the frigate is skipping instead of flying that idea, I'm not sure if that can be fixxed?

Check my post above. It's because of converting the original video files (USA signal) to PAL (Europe signal), because that's where Queeg resides (I presume). It's very noticeable with panning shots or things moving by if the camera is fixed. It can be limited somewhat but cannot be fixed completely without artifacts / frame blending (results in blurry output which is horrible IMO).

Queeg, just do what you think is right, don't overcomplicate your work and take enough breaks. Cheers.

[Queeg]

Okay, I believe all frame related issues are resolved now. I have re-encoded the intro with the NTSC 29.97 frame rate and now the video is perfectly smooth. Also the mission capture lag is gone or unnoticeable. I have now redone the whole first mission and I'm quite happy with it. The cockpit overlay stuff has been dumped so better alternatives have been used.

How will your branch choices be made? I watched the WCIII movie quite some time ago, but I can't recall if you followed the novel or not.

Basically I'm putting the story as I see fit, I don't think it's too important to follow the novel this time.

[WingcommanderIV]

Hey Queeg

I just heard about your work now. I haven't watched them yet (I'm in a class...literally just found your projects like an hour ago).

This is such an amazing idea. I played these games a few years ago, love Mark Hamill and thought the idea of combining a game with a movie was brilliant. It's sad that people don't do these live action games anymore (Besides Command & Conquer 3...the live action stuff is the only reason why I'm going to have to buy that game). But yes.

Not wanting to replay the game again, I've been looking for something just like this. I can't wait to go home, throw your WC3 on my PS3 and watch it on the big screen (Even though it'll probably look like crap).

You mentioned wanting to get the length to below 2 hours, that kinda worries me. I'd hate for you to sacrifice cool Live Action scenes just to lower the length. Maybe I'm worrying needlessly, I dunno, I downloaded the extended cut of WC3 for the same reason. I'm just looking for the most definitive version.

So what do you have to say about that... (I can't figure how to write that in the form of a question, but I guess just..."Definitive Version" discuss.)

EDIT

~~~, just occured to me the irony of my name being WingcommanderIV in a forum for Wingcommander. Tis funny.

[Queeg]

Yes perhaps an extended version should be done for this one, like the LOTR series. It's good to see new members still popping up on occasion .

Just to give the thread an update, progress has been a bit slow these past couple of weeks but next week is the easter holidays, thing's should really start picking up and moving forward then.

[Beckmen]

Yes, that would be cool. Still waiting for somebody to release a WC4 movie. I check back here every few months.

[Queeg]

I think the video compresson is all sorted now. I have made a 1minute and 30 second clip of the intro into an AVI.

The AVI uses the compressons I plan to use for the final movie, which has an estimated file size of 1.3gigs (I know a bit big, but it is a movie and quality takes space).

The video details are as follows:
Video - Xvid Two Pass (Average bit rate 1200kb/sec)
Audio - AC3 dolby digital 5.1 channel

You can download the AVI with this link
http://www.sendspace.com/file/7wri0z

Please tell me what you think and if you experience problems viewing it. Any kind of critisim welcome. Thanks in advance for any feedback.

[BrynS]

Looking good!

The framerate issues seem to be resolved and while it's difficult to simulate the original titling without the original font and production tools I assume, I think you've done a good job under the circumstances in maintaining the effect and flow where you have made edits.

I can't really discern the multi-channel AC3 through my laptop's tinny speakers, but I can see it interleaved in the AVI container. I know that the Dolby Digital on WC4 sounds good on the right setup and it's very neat that you're planning to integrate it completely into the project in both the FMV and gameplay scenes. Had no problems viewing it, but would think that anyone having problems may need something like AC3Filter if you don't have an appropriate AC3 DirectShow filter or VLC installed.

The compression quality also looks fine; 2-pass ~1200kbps VBR Xvid should be sufficient for the resolution. Are you using a custom matrix or the H.263 or MPEG profiles? How are the gameplay sequences looking on your new PC? Anyway, good work.

Cheers,

Bryn

[Queeg]

Originally Posted by BrynS

Looking good!

The framerate issues seem to be resolved and while it's difficult to simulate the original titling without the original font and production tools I assume, I think you've done a good job under the circumstances in maintaining the effect and flow where you have made edits.

I can't really discern the multi-channel AC3 through my laptop's tinny speakers, but I can see it interleaved in the AVI container. I know that the Dolby Digital on WC4 sounds good on the right setup and it's very neat that you're planning to integrate it completely into the project in both the FMV and gameplay scenes. Had no problems viewing it, but would think that anyone having problems may need something like AC3Filter if you don't have an appropriate AC3 DirectShow filter or VLC installed.

The compression quality also looks fine; 2-pass ~1200kbps VBR Xvid should be sufficient for the resolution. Are you using a custom matrix or the H.263 or MPEG profiles? How are the gameplay sequences looking on your new PC? Anyway, good work.

Cheers,

Bryn

Yes I forgot to mention the AC3 filter might be required. The xvid is using the regular h.263 unrestricted profile. As far as I'm concerned the gameplay footage is of good quality and the framerate seems perfectly smooth now. I'm really having high hopes now things are running smoothly. Thank you for your input, my Easter holiday break just started so I'd better get cracking with the project!

[Ghibli]

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan Kenobi

only when the Medical frigate comes flying by I get these frame drops, just as if the frigate is skipping instead of flying that idea, I'm not sure if that can be fixed?

I get the same effect when I watch this on my standalone DVD/DivX player.
Using VLC on my Mac the skipping is less noticeable, but I'd prefer to watch this on my home theater setup instead of a computer with two tiny speakers...

Another issue which I noticed is that the Dolby Digital logo plays way too fast - almost as if it was sped up from ~24 fps to ~30 fps.
The rest of the video seemed to be playing at proper speed.

[Queeg]

Originally Posted by Ghibli

I get the same effect when I watch this on my standalone DVD/DivX player.
Using VLC on my Mac the skipping is less noticeable, but I'd prefer to watch this on my home theater setup instead of a computer with two tiny speakers...

Another issue which I noticed is that the Dolby Digital logo plays way too fast - almost as if it was sped up from ~24 fps to ~30 fps.
The rest of the video seemed to be playing at proper speed.

That's strange, I thought the frigate was fixed now. Is it possible your DVD/divx machine converts it to PAL before sending it to the TV?

Also the dolby logo is purposely sped up, it is quite long and time is scarce. I'm not sure what to suggest, I'd like to make the video work for everyone. Undoubtly there could be others having the same problem with frame skipping...

[ser lev]

Just saw the intro sequence looking forward to seeing the final cut. One thing that has always bugged me though with the music certainly on the intro of the game is it never seemed used to it's potential (elevator rather than space operatics; the marching beat was to quiet) whats the chances of the sound mix being sorted so it's a touch more pumping if you know what i mean

[Queeg]

Originally Posted by ser lev

Just saw the intro sequence looking forward to seeing the final cut. One thing that has always bugged me though with the music certainly on the intro of the game is it never seemed used to it's potential (elevator rather than space operatics; the marching beat was to quiet) whats the chances of the sound mix being sorted so it's a touch more pumping if you know what i mean

Yeah I think know what you mean, i'll try and do something with the music but I'm no sound editor. The movies almost finished now for anyone that wanted to know. All the missions have been shot and almost all the main videos are in place, and compresson has recieved final tweaks should be on torrent by next week hopefully!

[BrynS]

Neat, sounds like you've been making very good progress, Queeg! Looking forward to it.

[Queeg]

Movie Complete

Thats right, it's all finished. I am pretty happy with it, but I would like to create an extended version using some better software in the not too distant future.

The movie is precisely 2 hours long, this means of course that there were many cut backs so I hope you guys won't be too disappointed about what is missing. Theres only a couple of minor glitches that I couldn't fix which should draw too much attention.

Download Here

It's on a torrent file as usual so if you download please seed for as long as you can!

Well, enjoy! Looking forward to hear feedback.

[mustanger]

hmmm... I d/led the file, but it says that it is corrupt? What player do you recommend using to view the movie? Hope I don't have to re-download

[AD]

Originally Posted by mustanger

hmmm... I d/led the file, but it says that it is corrupt? What player do you recommend using to view the movie? Hope I don't have to re-download

If it's like his WC3 movie you might need the XviD codec installed. I would give the video a shot in VLC player ( a free download). If it will not play in VLC then the file is most likely corrupt.

[Queeg]

Originally Posted by AD

If it's like his WC3 movie you might need the XviD codec installed. I would give the video a shot in VLC player ( a free download). If it will not play in VLC then the file is most likely corrupt.

Correct, to play the video in windows media player you need the xvid codec and probably AC3 filter. Or you can use Video Lan Player which supposedly plays anything

If the file is corrupt then you can try re-opening the torrent which should hash the file and should re-download corrupt data.

[mustanger]

thanks for the replies... I've run the WC3 movie under windows media, but can't run 4 for some reason... the total size of the d/l is showing 1,310,752,768 bytes, but it still won't run at the moment...

I'm going to try the other player you suggested, and will let you know.

[Darkelf]

WOW Queeg, fantastic you found the time to finish the movie in a hurry... Didn't expect to see it this soon.

Downloading now! Will post again later.

[boondocksaint20]

Hey Queeg,

I loved the WC3 movie, and am dl the new one right now. Can't wait to see it. I will definitely let you know what I think later on.

[Darkelf]

Well saw the film, fantastic dvd-like quality, watched it in the comfort of my home cinema with crystal clear picture and sweet surround sound. Much better than the low-tech WC III.

Concerning your editorial work, it's good but not great. The story doesn't flow like in your previous movie, but I understand you had to cut a lot of great scenes to keep the running time to a minimum. Sad you had to delete all the neat stuff near the end, with the battle between the cruisers. Still, 2 hours doesn't do the great storyline of WC IV justice. Would love to see an extended cut if you decide to make one.

Also, combat missions were noticeably absent, and if you included them, they were cut short. Makes the whole flow of the movie more abrupt. The whole part when Paulsen comes on board and before Blair and company 'transfer' to the Intrepid is a bit of a mess, but okay, time restraint plays a big reason here.

This is just some complaining seeing it comes from a fan of the game, but I still applaud your work, don't get me wrong. This is something I've always wanted to do myself, but I'm just a lazy ass that likes to bitch about other people's hard work. Anyway, WC IV deserves to be told the right way, which means a much longer version with all those cool missing bits is practically a necessity.

Queeg, job well done. So now for your next project?

[Queeg]

Originally Posted by Darkelf

Well saw the film, fantastic dvd-like quality, watched it in the comfort of my home cinema with crystal clear picture and sweet surround sound. Much better than the low-tech WC III.

Concerning your editorial work, it's good but not great. The story doesn't flow like in your previous movie, but I understand you had to cut a lot of great scenes to keep the running time to a minimum. Sad you had to delete all the neat stuff near the end, with the battle between the cruisers. Still, 2 hours doesn't do the great storyline of WC IV justice. Would love to see an extended cut if you decide to make one.

Also, combat missions were noticeably absent, and if you included them, they were cut short. Makes the whole flow of the movie more abrupt. The whole part when Paulsen comes on board and before Blair and company 'transfer' to the Intrepid is a bit of a mess, but okay, time restraint plays a big reason here.

This is just some complaining seeing it comes from a fan of the game, but I still applaud your work, don't get me wrong. This is something I've always wanted to do myself, but I'm just a lazy ass that likes to bitch about other people's hard work. Anyway, WC IV deserves to be told the right way, which means a much longer version with all those cool missing bits is practically a necessity.

Queeg, job well done. So now for your next project?

Ah, yes there were major cut backs due to the incredible amount of footage the WC4 game holds. I thought the 2 hour length would be appropriate as a lot of films don't exceed that. Rest assured, there shall be a complete extended copy which will fill in all the gaps . I still feel a little guilty for completely cutting out catscratch and the bar guy. Along with the whole jamming event which lasted about 5 minutes. To be honest I wasn't completely satisfied with it myself, but completely determined to meet the 2 hour limit.

Thank you for writing back it seems you're the first to have seen it and reply . I'm sorry you felt that the film was lacking and I entirely agree with you, the 2 hour cut doesn't fulfil WC4's potential. I really hope you get to see the extended version when it's done, I'm certainly not ready to close the book on this project anytime soon!

[Ghibli]

Why isn't there a post in the CIC news, yet?

[Knight486_79]

I agree that most films are 2 hours in length, but all the great movies are longer. Classic epics like Gladiator and Braveheart are 3+ hours in length. WC4 is epic in stature and should be left that way. Even modern superhero films like X-Men, Spiderman, and Superman are over two hours in length. I don’t think you should be worried about going over a time limit. Most film companies require movies to be cut so they can squeeze more films into a viewing day, and this usually results in the director’s work suffering from a bad edit. That is why we are seeing so many directors’ cuts these days when films reach DVD. Just treat this project as your directors cut. Don’t limit your story telling capabilities to a viewer’s short attention span. Most people that will see it are already fans and we are willing to deal with the long length. Those of us that are not already fans will become fans when they see the epic scale of the story. In my opinion 2 and 4 have the best stories because of the scope and quality.

Who cares if people complain about bandwidth and long download times? WC4 is worth it. If you treat it like the Gone with the Wind of Wing Commander you may piss off some people, but once they watch it they will see that it is worth it. Thank you for all of the time you have put into these projects. I am looking forward to watching WC4 with a friend who is not into gaming, but loves Sci-Fi.

[boondocksaint20]

Queeg,

As with Wc3, you did an excellent job putting in the effort to recreate one of my favorite video games. However, I have to say, unlike the WC3 project, this one did not reach me the same way as your previous effort.

I really applaud you for maintaining the strict 2 hour limit you imposed. As a writer, I know how hard it is to trim your work down to a level for the sake of scene flow and interest. However, despite the fact others have commented on this, this was my first opinion as well...WC4 just has too much story to be compressed into a 2 hr movie. Who cares about bandwidth and whatnot...I think your work would be much better in a 2.5 hr to 3 hr movie.

Your WC3 movie flowed BEAUTIFULLY, and I can't applaud you enough for your work on that. I think the thing here is that you tried to compress a 6 hour movie into a 2 hour movie, and by doing so, left out a ton of the side plot elements. Not to mention, most of the in-flight combat was completely missing...and some of your edits were confusing, and others were so quick that they didn't make sense (one of the first being when Blair and Maniac first leave the planet in the beginning and suddenly we see Seether drop a space mine and jump out for no reason).

At any rate, I apologize for being so blunt...you put in the effort that most of us, including myself, weren't willing to put in to provide a great piece of nostalgia for everyone. I can't wait to see your extended cut...hell, who cares about time limits, go all out, and make it seamless. As I said, WC4 was not meant to be 2 hrs long...I mean the sheer fact is was a 6 cd game as opposed to a 4 cd game should speak volumes about that.

Good job, Queeg! Thank you for taking the time and bringing one of my favorite games back to life!

[BrynS]

Thanks for taking the time to put the whole package together, Queeg.

I'm having trouble torrenting the file in my campus halls, so I'll wait for a direct download, but there's no rush.

On the length issue, perhaps an episodic format might work -- given the amount of FMV as well as the number and variation of missions covered during the period of the game? Or perhaps split it into a two or three part mini-series? Finding appropriate sections to segment into a first, second and and third act for each episode or series, might be more difficult however.

Cheers,

Bryn

[Queeg]

Alright I've read through everyones feedback carefully and I think I can safely say the 2 hour limit is a big problem and the plot holes/shortcuts are noticable. I want to improve on the movie as it could obviously be a lot more.

I especially like Bryn's idea of a three part series (reminds me of back to the future). Although I don't think that would quite work, as there isn't really specific places in WC4 that could be passed off as a 'To Be Continued' ending in my opinion.

So if people don't mind sitting through a 3 hour film then all the better having the freedom of adding scenes without worrying about length impact is great. I have already changed the opening sequence so nothing is cut, including the bar guy asking for drink money who was completely cut before. I haven't done any other work yet so if there is any more suggestions you guys want to contribute then now would be a good time.

Basically my plan is to release a directors cut of the film, a full length (up to 3 hours, maybe even a bit more) extended movie. Thank you for taking the time to watch the film and I really do appreciate you all helping me and hope the final movie will live it to WC4's potential.

[mustanger]

Okay, I'll go ahead and chime in.

I also really liked the WC3 movie, and did feel that the WC4 one was a bit lacking. However, no reason to beat a dead horse here, beacause you already said you are addressing that. So, great

I think the movie needs a few more action scenes, to be honest. I did like the way you incorporated the in-flight speech, but the attack on the vesuvius, for instance, needed a fight scene. Otherwise, it just feels to rushed.

I did miss having Catsnatch...er catscratch

That's all I can think of for now...

Best of luck on your next edit!

[Darkelf]

Here here! I'm with everyone on this one. Bringing out a director's cut (or shouldn't it rather be editor's cut?) will please the hungry masses.

One thing I agree with other members here is the comparison they make between WC3 and 4, and that the third one flows better: I think I know why, because WC3 was pretty linear in the storytelling, you have the intro, some cutscenes, briefing, mission, cutscenes, briefing, mission, cutscenes, etc. Not a whole lot minor plotlines besides the main one, except for every character's personal story. But they all contributed to the main storyline too at the same time.

WC4 has a much more complicated plot, more characters, so to make it flow coherently will take some effort and luck. Can't really make any suggestions, you will have to see for yourself what works best.

You decided to include most of the mission combat in 3 so that's what I was expecting and missed in number 4. I would still include many more combat missions in 4, at least the ones that are vital to the progress of the plot. And yes: that includes Catscratch (well I'm a sucker for the poor boy).

And please oh please, include the bit about the planet (name?) with the deadly virus. Those images haunted me more than then years ago, I think they have earned a place in your final cut.

So enough ranting... ehrr suggesting. Will let you work in peace. Take care and if you ever need clearance to land after a long session of cutting and pasting, we're here to guide you home.

CHEERS. OVER AND OUT.

[Tiko201]

Wow, i've just discovered your wonderful work Queeg, your work on the WC3 movie has made me remember these games wonderfully. I loved the WC3 movie, but I think I'll wait until you get around to releasing an extended version. WC4 is just too big to cut, plus I don't mind watching a long movie.

Good luck, and thanks for revitalizing an old game series for me.

[Queeg]

Hello everybody, just to clarify I am still reading all your feedback and it's really getting the ideas flowing . The virus planet will definately be included and I don't think you shall be too disappointed with the new mission stuff . Anyway I don't want to post anymore missions as that will spoil it later. However, there is something I have been working on the last couple of days which you may like to see.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/hl6oen

This is a remake of the Kilrah explosion scene. It's a little tacky but I am quite pleased with the results. This won't be in the film but it is an example of the improvements for the ingame footage I have planned . Please let me know what you think if you get a chance to see it.

[gingersonny]

Excellent, just finished re-watching your WC3 movie again, the extended 2 hour one, really good stuff, I have high hopes for your WC4 one, am downloading it now. Just finished downloading your Kilrah 'remix', so will watch it and post some opinions. Keep up the good work!

[gingersonny]

The improvement in quality in that clip is quite exceptional compared to the original, although you're right in that it's somewhat tacky looking. But as a demo of the improvement, it really is impressive. Keep up the good work, can't wait for the extended version of WC4!

By the way, I'm trying to download your current WC4 movie, however nobody's seeding at the moment hopefully someone will get back seeding again soon!

[Queeg]

Originally Posted by gingersonny

The improvement in quality in that clip is quite exceptional compared to the original, although you're right in that it's somewhat tacky looking. But as a demo of the improvement, it really is impressive. Keep up the good work, can't wait for the extended version of WC4!

By the way, I'm trying to download your current WC4 movie, however nobody's seeding at the moment hopefully someone will get back seeding again soon!

Thanks, I thought it might come in handy for a flashback but I think there are more than enough references to WC3 already anyway. I seeded the WC4 torrent for a while, let me know if it gets slow again.

On Movie progress I've almost completed adding all the extra DVD footage. The extended movie is so far up to 2:45, thats without the extended missions and extra mission footage. So the final length is going to be pushing 3 hours, yet it's still shorter than Lord of the Rings . Anyway, first mission has already been re-cut and the film will hopefully be complete in the not too distant future .

Anyway I really have high hopes for this film and hope you won't be disappointed .

[Queeg]

Alright everybody, final movie length is 2 hours and 56 minutes, so just under 3 hours. The final AVI has been encoded and the size comes to 2gigs. It'll probably take me a couple of days to put it on the internet so for now I shall just list the main changes in the film.

Changes in the extended cut:

Almost a whopping hour of extra footage (previous plot holes filled)
Several extra ingame missions
All ingame missions extended with improved graphics (along with some sound remixing)
Video quality increased (video de-interlaced and higher bitrate)
Credits music jazzed up a bit

Well you get the general idea, there are significant improvements in the story flow. Now that there is a lot more un-cut footage I believe it is much more enjoyable to watch. Anyway I hope you like the extended cut of the film, there should be some file links up soon so keep an eye on the thread if you're interested .

[gingersonny]

Excellent news! I have finally managed to finish downloading the 2 hour version, taken me about a week on and off at around 4 kbps (ouch!), am 30 minutes in at the moment, and definitely can't wait to see the 'director's cut', I have to fully agree with everyone's comments, it is initially jarring to see great chunks of mission and plot time removed, however I am still enjoying the movie, like a visit to an old friend. Technically, no issues whatsoever, surprisingly good quality, the DVD release makes a huge difference. Simply cannot wait until the re-release! Hopefully this time I'll be downloading it at a time when we still have plenty of fresh seeders, and it won't take me 2 weeks (a file that big, if released in torrent form, and at the speed I've been getting from the tracker...ouch).

Off now to watch the remainder of the movie, saving the full hooked-up-to-my-home-surround-sound-system experience for the extended release. Hurry up and get it uploaded already!

All the best,

[Queeg]

Originally Posted by gingersonny

Excellent news! I have finally managed to finish downloading the 2 hour version, taken me about a week on and off at around 4 kbps (ouch!), am 30 minutes in at the moment, and definitely can't wait to see the 'director's cut', I have to fully agree with everyone's comments, it is initially jarring to see great chunks of mission and plot time removed, however I am still enjoying the movie, like a visit to an old friend. Technically, no issues whatsoever, surprisingly good quality, the DVD release makes a huge difference. Simply cannot wait until the re-release! Hopefully this time I'll be downloading it at a time when we still have plenty of fresh seeders, and it won't take me 2 weeks (a file that big, if released in torrent form, and at the speed I've been getting from the tracker...ouch).

Off now to watch the remainder of the movie, saving the full hooked-up-to-my-home-surround-sound-system experience for the extended release. Hurry up and get it uploaded already!

All the best,

Wish my living room surround still worked . Glad you still enjoy the movie despite it's problems. As for the new movie, I'm trying to get it uploaded to the CIC so people can download it easily and not have to use the torrent. However, there may be issues with the filesize and it could tell a while and may not be possible at all.

So for now I may as well post the torrent link here so if you're really iching to see it you can try your luck with the torrent

http://www.mininova.org/tor/716121

Well hope someone gets to see it, enjoy!