Cloak Comparison

frostytheplebe · 03-03-2010, 20:32

I just finished playing WC4 on the PSP and noticed something unusual. The cloaking device used by the arrow and the one on the Dragon seem quite different.

When the arrow cloaks, it disappears completely, you can still shoot it down, but you can't see it at all. It's pretty effective.

The Dragon on the other hand disappears for a few seconds and then flashes bright for a moment before returning to its original shade of gray... but it does not disappear. It fools the targeting systems and radar, but you can still get a visual on it. Personally, this would be more effective if, instead of a cloak, it was a radar dampener. That way, the Dragon could still shoot.

The other odd thing is that on the Intrepid's fight deck, the ship did indeed fully disappear.

AD · 03-03-2010, 23:04

This depends entirely on what you are flying IIRC. If you are flying a Dragon, it has something that lets you see cloaked ships even though you can't target them specifically.

Haliwali · 03-04-2010, 07:39

Wait, WC4 is on the PSP?

AD · 03-04-2010, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haliwali

Wait, WC4 is on the PSP?

Yes... sort of. The PSX port is available on the PSN for about six dollars. You can download it and play it on either your PS3 or PSP.

Bandit LOAF · 03-04-2010, 12:17

... OR BOTH!

Iceman16 · 03-05-2010, 00:15

AT THE SAME TIME!

Mace · 03-05-2010, 01:49

Quote:

to its original shade of gray

Dragons are thesame color as copper(the metal)

I also believe that the cloak in the arrow, which was based on the cloaking device used in the excalibur during the kilrah bombing run, was a pure confed design. The dragon clearly has some kilrathi influances, and possibly using their cloaking tech.

In WC3/4 you can still get a visual on a cloaked ship, you'll notice that when you have damaged a ship it starts "leaking"(this also happens in wing2, but in Wing3/4 you can actually "see" the outlines of the ship if your screen setting is bright enough), but this is purely a limitation of the game engine AFAIK.

LarkInFlight · 03-05-2010, 07:57

As far as I remember, when I was fighting 2 Dragons with a Vindicator they were disappearing completly. When I was fighting Dragons with a Dragon, when they cloacked I could still see their shape.

I always thought that Dragons have some special systems to see through cloack. Am I right guys?

Death · 03-05-2010, 08:56

Yes, the Dragon has anti-cloak optics that let you see an outline of cloaked ships. It's not enough for ITTS targeting assistance, but with that fat back end once you get behind it missing is kinda difficult if you have even passable aim.

LarkInFlight · 03-07-2010, 13:24

I am a fan of Dragons. IMHO No other fighter is as good as 'em.
I just finished playing Wing4, it was my first time of the HQ DVD version.

Killing anything; fighters, capships is relatively easy with a Dragon. It outperforms everything in the game and still it can be quite fragile. One has to know how to use it with deadly effect.

Mace · 03-07-2010, 14:02

The dragon is too powerfull.. to balance a game.

LarkInFlight · 03-09-2010, 12:57

it has to be that good. It is top of the line fighter that costs like 300000000000 credits each

JasonRocZ · 03-10-2010, 10:08

I don't totally agree, I mean the Dragon isn't really all that great...It's rather sluggish as far as maneuvering is concerned, although is fairly quick... The Weapons are definitely overpowered I mean 2 plasma, 2 tachyon, & 2 FISSION!..... Of coarse it does have a cloaking device and is heavily armored... according to wcnews database.. it has the shielding and armor of a longbow bomber... I would think that there is limited knowledge on the Fission Cannons... That perhaps they were unstable (We don't see them after WC4). But still 2 plasma and 2 tachyon will mess anything up. But for it's time (WC4) it was top notch.

ChrisReid · 03-11-2010, 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonRocZ

That perhaps they were unstable (We don't see them after WC4).

Those kind of assumptions are generally unfounded. Maybe lots of ships had Fission Cannons after the Dragon, but we just didn't happen to see them (yet). Maybe it turns out the Charging Mass Driver is just as effective and cheaper to produce/easier to maintain/etc.

JasonRocZ · 03-11-2010, 11:24

Yes it's one of those..."Who Knows" type a deals

Mjr. Whoopass · 03-11-2010, 11:31

In comparing the Dragon and Arrow cloaks, I could still see the Dragon, but it did at least make it a bit harder to see them. I think even with the Arrow's advantage of totally disappearing, the Dragon could still be strategically better because of it's ability to destroy large capships.

Wedge009 · 03-11-2010, 20:57

I think you misunderstand. There is no comparison. You were not able to see the Arrows because you were flying standard Border Worlds fighters - the Dragons were only (marginally) visible because the advanced optics available in your own Dragon/Lance fighter are able to partially counter the cloaking ability.

Mjr. Whoopass · 03-16-2010, 06:45

Yes, I misunderstood. I didn't believe the programming went into that much detail for such a minor element. That's really cool.

LarkInFlight · 03-16-2010, 11:48

The Dragons are awesome, eh?

Farbourne · 03-17-2010, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wedge009

I think you misunderstand. There is no comparison. You were not able to see the Arrows because you were flying standard Border Worlds fighters - the Dragons were only (marginally) visible because the advanced optics available in your own Dragon/Lance fighter are able to partially counter the cloaking ability.

Don't you actually encounter cloaking Arrows while flying a Dragon, once? In the final mission (the same one where you face Seether). I know most people don't bother with them...they just cloak and fly past...but if you do stop to dogfight, can't those Arrows cloak?

Anyone recall if they do? And if they do, could you still see them with the Dragon's advanced optics?

Mancubus · 03-21-2010, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farbourne

Don't you actually encounter cloaking Arrows while flying a Dragon, once?

yes

Quote:

And if they do, could you still see them with the Dragon's advanced optics?

I think yes, but i'm not sure

frostytheplebe · 03-29-2010, 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancubus

yes

I think yes, but i'm not sure

Time for another replay!

03-03-2010, 20:32	#1
frostytheplebe Seventh Part of the Seal Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Framingham, Mass Posts: 2,067	Cloak Comparison I just finished playing WC4 on the PSP and noticed something unusual. The cloaking device used by the arrow and the one on the Dragon seem quite different. When the arrow cloaks, it disappears completely, you can still shoot it down, but you can't see it at all. It's pretty effective. The Dragon on the other hand disappears for a few seconds and then flashes bright for a moment before returning to its original shade of gray... but it does not disappear. It fools the targeting systems and radar, but you can still get a visual on it. Personally, this would be more effective if, instead of a cloak, it was a radar dampener. That way, the Dragon could still shoot. The other odd thing is that on the Intrepid's fight deck, the ship did indeed fully disappear. __________________ +Holding in my hand, 7 parts of the seal, to unlock the land of illumination I feel, And it's been foretold, After touching the light, We shall lock the world, but now is our time to transcend, The Ultimate Key in our Hands... For the Glory of Rome! +

03-03-2010, 23:04	#2
AD Finder of things, Doer of stuff Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 3,776	This depends entirely on what you are flying IIRC. If you are flying a Dragon, it has something that lets you see cloaked ships even though you can't target them specifically. __________________ "I saw a monster come with speed, Its face of grimmliest green, On human beings used to feed, Most dreadful to be seen." - Excerpt from Horrors, Lewis Carroll, 1850

03-04-2010, 07:39	#3
Haliwali Captain Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Backwater, Tennessee Posts: 353	Wait, WC4 is on the PSP? __________________ Congratulations, you've just had a near life experience. -Tyler Durden If I hadn't learned to laugh at myself, I'd be dead a long time ago. -Chris Griffin You wouldn't know up from down if it weren't for gravity!- Maniac

03-04-2010, 12:17	#5
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 25,571	... OR BOTH! __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

03-05-2010, 00:15	#6
Iceman16 Colonel Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 1,018	AT THE SAME TIME! __________________ "I don't trust anything that bleeds for 5 days and doesn't die."-Mr. Garrison, South Park

03-05-2010, 07:57	#8
LarkInFlight 1st Lieutenant Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Krakow, Poland Posts: 162	As far as I remember, when I was fighting 2 Dragons with a Vindicator they were disappearing completly. When I was fighting Dragons with a Dragon, when they cloacked I could still see their shape. I always thought that Dragons have some special systems to see through cloack. Am I right guys?

03-05-2010, 08:56	#9
Death gh0d Administrator Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Taylors, SC, USA Posts: 2,299	Yes, the Dragon has anti-cloak optics that let you see an outline of cloaked ships. It's not enough for ITTS targeting assistance, but with that fat back end once you get behind it missing is kinda difficult if you have even passable aim. __________________ SubCrid Death Official Net.Nazi, LOAF's Merry Guild A Meeting of Minds - a (mostly) cliche-free "first contact" story; updated periodically If you don't fear ^Death_ then there's a socket loose in your fear factory, buddy. - The Book of LOAF

03-07-2010, 13:24	#10
LarkInFlight 1st Lieutenant Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Krakow, Poland Posts: 162	I am a fan of Dragons. IMHO No other fighter is as good as 'em. I just finished playing Wing4, it was my first time of the HQ DVD version. Killing anything; fighters, capships is relatively easy with a Dragon. It outperforms everything in the game and still it can be quite fragile. One has to know how to use it with deadly effect.

03-07-2010, 14:02	#11
Mace Colonel Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,060	The dragon is too powerfull.. to balance a game.

03-09-2010, 12:57	#12
LarkInFlight 1st Lieutenant Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Krakow, Poland Posts: 162	it has to be that good. It is top of the line fighter that costs like 300000000000 credits each

03-10-2010, 10:08	#13
JasonRocZ Brigadier General Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Albany NY Posts: 1,272	I don't totally agree, I mean the Dragon isn't really all that great...It's rather sluggish as far as maneuvering is concerned, although is fairly quick... The Weapons are definitely overpowered I mean 2 plasma, 2 tachyon, & 2 FISSION!..... Of coarse it does have a cloaking device and is heavily armored... according to wcnews database.. it has the shielding and armor of a longbow bomber... I would think that there is limited knowledge on the Fission Cannons... That perhaps they were unstable (We don't see them after WC4). But still 2 plasma and 2 tachyon will mess anything up. But for it's time (WC4) it was top notch.

03-11-2010, 11:24	#15
JasonRocZ Brigadier General Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Albany NY Posts: 1,272	Yes it's one of those..."Who Knows" type a deals

03-11-2010, 11:31	#16
Mjr. Whoopass I was going to say something funny about what you did, but looking at this silly robot made me too happy to remember what to write. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bloomington/Normal Illinois Posts: 940	In comparing the Dragon and Arrow cloaks, I could still see the Dragon, but it did at least make it a bit harder to see them. I think even with the Arrow's advantage of totally disappearing, the Dragon could still be strategically better because of it's ability to destroy large capships. __________________ "Being a Christian isn't always a cruise ship to heaven. It's often like boarding the TCS Midway surrounded by Nephilim, stationed at the gates of Hell, and getting a refit in Heaven."

03-11-2010, 20:57	#17
Wedge009 Rogue Leader Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 9,284	I think you misunderstand. There is no comparison. You were not able to see the Arrows because you were flying standard Border Worlds fighters - the Dragons were only (marginally) visible because the advanced optics available in your own Dragon/Lance fighter are able to partially counter the cloaking ability. __________________ Soli Deo Gloria \| wedge009.net

03-16-2010, 06:45	#18
Mjr. Whoopass I was going to say something funny about what you did, but looking at this silly robot made me too happy to remember what to write. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bloomington/Normal Illinois Posts: 940	Yes, I misunderstood. I didn't believe the programming went into that much detail for such a minor element. That's really cool. __________________ "Being a Christian isn't always a cruise ship to heaven. It's often like boarding the TCS Midway surrounded by Nephilim, stationed at the gates of Hell, and getting a refit in Heaven."

03-16-2010, 11:48	#19
LarkInFlight 1st Lieutenant Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Krakow, Poland Posts: 162	The Dragons are awesome, eh?

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