Wing Commander Academy's Place?

DyNaMiX · 08-02-2003, 23:53

Hi all.

I have been watching the Academy cartoon series and I am enjoying them very much! I only saw them on Australian tv once (was horribly shocked when I realised what it was). However I noticed that it is slightly different to the game series. Is this series considered canon? By canon I mean, does it have a place along the game timeline? The film was different from the game series (based on it but was not meant to be the same as the game). According to the games did Blair actually go to the Tiger's Claw during the academy? Were Hellcats and Broadswords around during pre-wing commander 1?

Thanks all for your suggestions.

PS: Great work to those who got the lost series online.

ChrisReid · 08-03-2003, 03:04

Yeah, everything fits together. There is simply some overlap for stuff we didn't see in the games. The movie fits in fine as well (March 15-17, 2654).

DyNaMiX · 08-03-2003, 04:29

Cool, thanks for clearing that uo. By the way the fighters in the series take off through the side of the claw, is that how it was in the first game. I noticed in the first game that it sure does look like it when you take off (small passage ships flys through), however when you look behind the front of the carrier is there.

ChrisReid · 08-03-2003, 04:39

Yeah, the Tiger's Claw launched fighters from Tubes similar to the Midway in Prophecy. There was also the regular flight deck, but tubrbowere the usual way.

DyNaMiX · 08-03-2003, 04:44

I knew it! I always knew they didn't take off the main flight deck! But I figured they must have because of the above points I made. I assumed it was always just the restrictions of art work.

Thanks for clearing this thread up for me.

Bandit LOAF · 08-03-2003, 09:08

Check out the Academy press kit... it clears a bunch of stuff up. Academy TV doesn't actually take place during Blair and co.'s academy days, but is rather a 'command school' they attend.

The first episode takes place just before the movie, most of the rest take place a bit later in WC1, around the 2654 Sivar ceremony.

overmortal · 08-04-2003, 14:23

But, yet, still the rank problems. As I recall, the "Sivar ceremony" (and I'm assuming that's the Sivar Eshrad, which took place at Firekka?) took place after Blair was (possibly) a Lt. Colonel. (secret missions 2).

Viper61 · 08-04-2003, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by overmortal

But, yet, still the rank problems. As I recall, the "Sivar ceremony" (and I'm assuming that's the Sivar Eshrad, which took place at Firekka?) took place after Blair was (possibly) a Lt. Colonel. (secret missions 2).

The Sivar Eshrad on the Dolosians that took place in WCA was the one that took place the year before the Firekkan one (Dolos - 2654, Firekkan - 2655).

C-ya

overmortal · 08-04-2003, 16:43

Oh, my mistake. I only saw a few episodes of WCA.

Quarto · 08-04-2003, 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viper61

The Sivar Eshrad on the Dolosians that took place in WCA was the one that took place the year before the Firekkan one (Dolos - 2654, Firekkan - 2655).

Strictly speaking, the Dolosian ceremony might not even have been the Sivar Eshrad. It could have been some other Sivar-related ceremony. After all, there was no mass concentration of Kilrathi forces around Dolos, and the disruption of the ceremony did not appear to have any noticeable effect on the morale of the Kilrathi forces (unlike the Firekka ceremony).

Lord_Nathrakh · 08-07-2003, 06:35

i didnt know they had hellcats in pre-wing1 is this true?

Bandit LOAF · 08-07-2003, 06:48

Yes, it is true.

Lord_Nathrakh · 08-07-2003, 06:52

do u ahve a pic? do they look the same?

Napoleon · 08-07-2003, 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit LOAF

Yes, it is true.

are we sure that those in the simulators werent in fact wildcats? Cuz i would assume a wildcat and a hellcat would be similar.

Bandit LOAF · 08-07-2003, 08:53

I do love that explanation, but there's no real basis for it anywhere

(WCA was made before Action Stations was published, so they can't have been *intended* to be Wildcats...).

Viper61 · 08-07-2003, 09:35

I also like the idea that they are Wildcats, but I also like the idea that they are predecessors to the Hellcat V (maybe the IV). Anyway, here are some images of them so you can judge for yourself

(colors a bit off, but oh well)

C-ya

Lord_Nathrakh · 08-08-2003, 04:03

it does look very hellcatish.... though why they would keep a ship around untill wing 4 i dont know, it must have been a super heay fighter in wing 1 or academy

DyNaMiX · 08-08-2003, 06:52

My opinion is that it was a state of the art fighter and was only featured in the simulation as programming a ship is much easier than to build it at that current time or something like that. We never actually see it in action during the film and the Scimitar seems pretty standard.

We all know how those scimitars flew..

Bandit LOAF · 08-08-2003, 06:53

The field of debris at the end of 'Glory of Sivar' includes a Hellcat, IIRC.

Lord_Nathrakh · 08-08-2003, 07:30

man if the hellcats had the weapons of wc4 that that did in pre kilrathi war, they would have been a super super fighter

Bandit LOAF · 08-08-2003, 07:35

They didn't, though. The Hellcats we see on WCA seem to have a pair of lasers and a pair of missiles... nothing exceptionally exciting.

(Similarly, the Hornets and such that are in service around Fleet Action have no doubt been updated with more modern technology...)

Lord_Nathrakh · 08-08-2003, 07:43

hmm makes u wonder why they even keep such an aging design around, sort of like keeping a broadsword around when they had longbows or devestators

Bandit LOAF · 08-08-2003, 07:47

The problem is that you're looking at fighter service as though it corresponds directly to the games. Fiction-wise, Longbows were around in WC1 -- we just didn't fly them. Broadswords were still around in WCIII... but we didn't fly them.

(Broadswords were retired to Reserve units in 2670... Longbows left service altogether in the late seventies.)

Lord_Nathrakh · 08-08-2003, 07:56

i loved the longbow, was a great bomber had sick armour great warhead load and decent frontal cannons.

though the deve is the best the armour is thick the sheilds thicker and 4 turrets and that mean plasma gun that can take out caps by itself not to mention a great ship killing torpedo load

Viper61 · 08-08-2003, 08:23

alright kiddies . . .here we go. 'Hellcat debris' (though I wouldn't be ale to tell you for sure that its a Hellcat), a Longbow, and a Sabre, all circa 2654.
Nathrakh, the hellcat wouldn't be that great not only because of the armament, but the armor. It seems at the time of armada and WC3 a new armor that was measured in 'durasteel equivalent' was introduced, 10 times stronger than durasteel IIRC. The hellcats in Academy definitely do not appear to have this armor, do to a single shot from a Dralthi taking them down (though I like to think anytime this happened in Academy, we just cut directly to the end blow, we just didn't see all the previous hits that weakened the shields and armor

)
If I'm incorrect about any of this, I'm sure it will be corrected

C-ya

Bandit LOAF · 08-08-2003, 08:38

Yup, that's right -- Privateer actually explains the armor... 1 centimeter of Plasteel is the equivalent of 10 centimeters of Durasteel armor. 1 cm of Tungsten is 20 cm eq... and 1 cm of Isometal is 60 cm eq. So a Hornet with 3 cm. of Durasteel armor in 2654 might have 3 cm of isometal in 2654... which would be 180 cm equivalent.

(And I'm sure there are even better milspec armors...)

Lord_Nathrakh · 08-08-2003, 08:59

hmm why would they change metals and messuremnts so much for?

DyNaMiX · 08-08-2003, 17:33

I'm guessing as they discover new alloys or find abundance of current materials to use. Have to remember there are thousands upon thousands of fighters out there that faught the Kilrathi War.

I'm guessing when we saw Scimitars used most instead of Hellcat's it's because of what someone said earlier involving one shot hits. The scimitars did have thick armour and lots of sheilding so they would have been the idle fighter. But there is also another variable we have to remove, one shot kills. It could be that one shot kills ARE what happens and the sheilds are there if you get lucky, or, they didn't want us sitting for longer time periods to watch sheild effects from direct hits all the time.

****Possible Spoilers for those who have not seen the entire series****

By the way I just finished watching the last episode of the series, and gosh that was spectacular! I loved the entire series of the cartoons and I wish there was more. I enjoyed the closeness of Blair and Tolwyn which soon showed that they would become enemies in the future (end scene).

Lord_Nathrakh · 08-10-2003, 03:59

yeah but why change to so many differnt armour types? doesnt make sence to me..

Bandit LOAF · 08-10-2003, 04:47

They kept developing armor over thirty years of warfare -- by the end, they had three-plus types available (on the civilian market, none the less). I'm sure that at any given point MilSpec ships were constructed out of only whatever the most recent alloy is.

Lord_Nathrakh · 08-10-2003, 05:56

yeah but there all relevent in armour distributiona dn strenght, that 3 cm armour is equiv to 300cm of durasteel, etc, so thats my point why confuse ppl by bring out armour thats basicly the same thing

Quarto · 08-10-2003, 07:04

But if 3 cm of one type of armour is equivalent to 300 cm of another type, then the two types of armour clearly are not the same thing, and therefore, people aren't confused

.

vindicator · 08-10-2003, 07:38

I am curious though in the game WC1 it is potrayed that Blair and Marshall meet aboard the Tigers vlaw but in the cartoon and the movie they are kind of rivals how does that work?

-Rance-

Bandit LOAF · 08-10-2003, 08:38

Quote:

yeah but there all relevent in armour distributiona dn strenght, that 3 cm armour is equiv to 300cm of durasteel, etc, so thats my point why confuse ppl by bring out armour thats basicly the same thing

I don't think you're following this properly. Let me try to explain again.

In 2654 ships had armor made of an alloy called Durasteel. A ship with '2 cm' armor meant that it physically had two centimeters of durasteel armor. All weapons were, therefore, measured in their affect on durasteel. A laser which blasts off 1 cm of Durasteel armor does '1 cm' damage. It would take two of these laser blasts to destroy the fighter's armor. Makes sense so far?

As the war progressed, newer and stronger alloys were discovered. Instead of building a fighter with 2 cm of Durasteel armor, you'd build one with 2 cm of Plasteel (for instance) armor. But Plasteel is ten times as strong as Durasteel... so instead of being listed as '2 cm' of armor, it has '20 cm equivalent'. It would now take *twenty* blasts from our laser (which, remember, does 1 cm durasteel damage) to destroy this armor.

New armor is put into service because it's better. It's measured in durasteel equivalent because that's a standard -- which is exactly the basis for any type of measurement.

Viper61 · 08-10-2003, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by vindicator

I am curious though in the game WC1 it is potrayed that Blair and Marshall meet aboard the Tigers vlaw but in the cartoon and the movie they are kind of rivals how does that work?

-Rance-

People have theorized that since at this time, everyone on the Claw was saying, "Hello Blair, my name is . . ." and introducing themselves, that Marshall turned it into a bad joke (imagine that) and went ahead and did the same thing. Kindof sounds like Maniac to me, and it fits the timeline

.

C-ya

ChanceKell · 08-10-2003, 12:05

It's also whether you view ever aspect of Wing Commander "cannon," meaning what has been produced, written, and shown is what happened in the WC universe. I, however, view the show and the movie as sort of spinoffs or alternate version. I think the games themselves (and their included supplimental fiction) are law, followed by the books themselves open to personal interpretation and acceptance, and the show and movie are just alternate versions. People who have reasons for the inconsistances I see with the movie and Academy and the games (and they come up with good reasons) view everything as cannon, but that's for the individual fan to decide, really.

Bandit LOAF · 08-10-2003, 12:24

Maniac and Blair's friendship/rivalry at the Academy is nothing new (to the TV show or the movie)... it comes from the original Wing Commander official guide, and has been expanded upon in numerous sources since then (among them the WCP ICIS manual and the WC3 novel).

overmortal · 08-10-2003, 12:51

I'm noticing, on this board, that there are a few subjects that simply get re-hashed again and again . . . something akin to a cow chewing the cud. The Marshall/Blair meeting is one of them. The movie, with all of its inconsistencies, is another. The Academy show is another (because they kept throwing in so many wc3 ships at the Academy). Personally, I agree with Chancekell. Except for the Blair/Marshall meeting, since the Official book says that they were academy "pals". I think the movie and the animated show were . . . entertaining at best. Not to be taken seriously in the grand scheme of things. Otherwise, some goof is going to show up in a post-prophecy fiction flying a Wild Weasel with a wingman in a Minotaur, and then we'll all end up with a huge headache.

Bandit LOAF · 08-10-2003, 13:21

See, it's because people say things like that that we have to rehash it over and over.

(Plus, we're sad sad people with little else to do (G))

Mav23 · 08-10-2003, 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit LOAF

See, it's because people say things like that that we have to rehash it over and over.

(Plus, we're sad sad people with little else to do (G))

Speak for yourself!

(I have NOTHING else to do.)

overmortal · 08-10-2003, 17:47

When I started coming to this board a month or so ago, I actually had a life. Suddenly, I look around and wonder where it's gone. You guys have ruined me! Now I sit around and look like this:

(btw, that's an IBC bottle, not beer. I'm sXe)

Here I am. All fat and lazy. Thanks guys.

Ghost · 08-10-2003, 18:42

Wow, You are ugly !

vindicator · 08-10-2003, 21:30

If that's not really you God has just killed a kitten thanks alot

-Rance-

Lord_Nathrakh · 08-10-2003, 21:59

hes either killed a kitten or created the human equivilent of elephant offspring..........gotto love the unkept beard though, really brings out your eyes....to bad all the skin makes u look like a rolly polly dog wich closes your eyes up.......and i do hope thats not u.....cause if it is..yeah u know

Bandit LOAF · 08-11-2003, 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Nathrakh

hes either killed a kitten or created the human equivilent of elephant offspring..........gotto love the unkept beard though, really brings out your eyes....to bad all the skin makes u look like a rolly polly dog wich closes your eyes up.......and i do hope thats not u.....cause if it is..yeah u know

Please stop hitting on the other one of you.

Lord_Nathrakh · 08-11-2003, 05:06

Hitting? nah be to easy on the knuckels with all the padding

overmortal · 08-11-2003, 08:31

Yah, that's me. The beard and hair needed a good trim. And, having my head against that couch at such a sharp angle drove my face into my shoulder, which pushed all the fat from my neck up into my cheek. Plus, I had hat hair. Not a great picture of me, but that's why I used it. And, I never claimed to be pretty (although, for some odd reason, many girls think I'm cute . . . and, since many of them also went on to date me for long periods of time, I guess they weren't lying . . go figure)

A better picture of me would be . . . hmm . . .

or

(yes, I was being a jackass on the pooltable. A pretty girl wanted a "cute" picture, so I gave her one . . aah, the joys of being in a band

)

vindicator · 08-11-2003, 10:56

WOW you are Hot!!!!

-Rance-

Lynx · 08-11-2003, 10:59

This thread has turned into a direction that no one would have ever expected...

vindicator · 08-11-2003, 11:04

I was hoping to terrify him so he will stop posting pictures of himself

-Rance-

08-02-2003, 23:53	#1
DyNaMiX Captain Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Out there. Posts: 404	Wing Commander Academy's Place? Hi all. I have been watching the Academy cartoon series and I am enjoying them very much! I only saw them on Australian tv once (was horribly shocked when I realised what it was). However I noticed that it is slightly different to the game series. Is this series considered canon? By canon I mean, does it have a place along the game timeline? The film was different from the game series (based on it but was not meant to be the same as the game). According to the games did Blair actually go to the Tiger's Claw during the academy? Were Hellcats and Broadswords around during pre-wing commander 1? Thanks all for your suggestions. PS: Great work to those who got the lost series online.

08-03-2003, 09:08	#6
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 25,571	Check out the Academy press kit... it clears a bunch of stuff up. Academy TV doesn't actually take place during Blair and co.'s academy days, but is rather a 'command school' they attend. The first episode takes place just before the movie, most of the rest take place a bit later in WC1, around the 2654 Sivar ceremony. __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

08-04-2003, 14:23	#7
overmortal Waffle Commander Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Middle of nowhere, NC, USA Posts: 2,389	But, yet, still the rank problems. As I recall, the "Sivar ceremony" (and I'm assuming that's the Sivar Eshrad, which took place at Firekka?) took place after Blair was (possibly) a Lt. Colonel. (secret missions 2). __________________ -Nick Blitz Super Sonic Ninja Quest

08-04-2003, 16:43	#9
overmortal Waffle Commander Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Middle of nowhere, NC, USA Posts: 2,389	Oh, my mistake. I only saw a few episodes of WCA. __________________ -Nick Blitz Super Sonic Ninja Quest

08-07-2003, 06:35	#11
Lord_Nathrakh Captain Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 385	i didnt know they had hellcats in pre-wing1 is this true? __________________ "Pesimists are the worlds happiest people, most of the time there right, and the times there not, there pleasently surprised." "reality is just an illusion cause by lack of drugs"

08-03-2003, 03:04	#2
ChrisReid Super Soaker Collector Administrator Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Seattle, Washington, USA Posts: 10,988	Yeah, everything fits together. There is simply some overlap for stuff we didn't see in the games. The movie fits in fine as well (March 15-17, 2654).

08-03-2003, 04:29	#3
DyNaMiX Captain Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Out there. Posts: 404	Cool, thanks for clearing that uo. By the way the fighters in the series take off through the side of the claw, is that how it was in the first game. I noticed in the first game that it sure does look like it when you take off (small passage ships flys through), however when you look behind the front of the carrier is there.

08-03-2003, 04:39	#4
ChrisReid Super Soaker Collector Administrator Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Seattle, Washington, USA Posts: 10,988	Yeah, the Tiger's Claw launched fighters from Tubes similar to the Midway in Prophecy. There was also the regular flight deck, but tubrbowere the usual way.

08-03-2003, 04:44	#5
DyNaMiX Captain Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Out there. Posts: 404	I knew it! I always knew they didn't take off the main flight deck! But I figured they must have because of the above points I made. I assumed it was always just the restrictions of art work. Thanks for clearing this thread up for me.

08-07-2003, 06:48	#12
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 25,571	Yes, it is true. __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

08-07-2003, 06:52	#13
Lord_Nathrakh Captain Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 385	do u ahve a pic? do they look the same? __________________ "Pesimists are the worlds happiest people, most of the time there right, and the times there not, there pleasently surprised." "reality is just an illusion cause by lack of drugs"

08-07-2003, 08:53	#15
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 25,571	I do love that explanation, but there's no real basis for it anywhere (WCA was made before Action Stations was published, so they can't have been intended to be Wildcats...). __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

08-07-2003, 09:35	#16
Viper61 Major General Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 1,909	I also like the idea that they are Wildcats, but I also like the idea that they are predecessors to the Hellcat V (maybe the IV). Anyway, here are some images of them so you can judge for yourself (colors a bit off, but oh well) C-ya Attached Thumbnails __________________ "You only live once, and the way I live, once is enough." - Frank Sinatra Last edited by Viper61; 08-07-2003 at 09:35.

08-08-2003, 04:03	#17
Lord_Nathrakh Captain Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 385	it does look very hellcatish.... though why they would keep a ship around untill wing 4 i dont know, it must have been a super heay fighter in wing 1 or academy __________________ "Pesimists are the worlds happiest people, most of the time there right, and the times there not, there pleasently surprised." "reality is just an illusion cause by lack of drugs"

08-08-2003, 06:52	#18
DyNaMiX Captain Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Out there. Posts: 404	My opinion is that it was a state of the art fighter and was only featured in the simulation as programming a ship is much easier than to build it at that current time or something like that. We never actually see it in action during the film and the Scimitar seems pretty standard. We all know how those scimitars flew..

08-08-2003, 06:53	#19
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 25,571	The field of debris at the end of 'Glory of Sivar' includes a Hellcat, IIRC. __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

08-08-2003, 07:30	#20
Lord_Nathrakh Captain Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 385	man if the hellcats had the weapons of wc4 that that did in pre kilrathi war, they would have been a super super fighter __________________ "Pesimists are the worlds happiest people, most of the time there right, and the times there not, there pleasently surprised." "reality is just an illusion cause by lack of drugs"

08-08-2003, 07:35	#21
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 25,571	They didn't, though. The Hellcats we see on WCA seem to have a pair of lasers and a pair of missiles... nothing exceptionally exciting. (Similarly, the Hornets and such that are in service around Fleet Action have no doubt been updated with more modern technology...) __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

08-08-2003, 07:43	#22
Lord_Nathrakh Captain Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 385	hmm makes u wonder why they even keep such an aging design around, sort of like keeping a broadsword around when they had longbows or devestators __________________ "Pesimists are the worlds happiest people, most of the time there right, and the times there not, there pleasently surprised." "reality is just an illusion cause by lack of drugs"

08-08-2003, 07:47	#23
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 25,571	The problem is that you're looking at fighter service as though it corresponds directly to the games. Fiction-wise, Longbows were around in WC1 -- we just didn't fly them. Broadswords were still around in WCIII... but we didn't fly them. (Broadswords were retired to Reserve units in 2670... Longbows left service altogether in the late seventies.) __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

08-08-2003, 07:56	#24
Lord_Nathrakh Captain Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 385	i loved the longbow, was a great bomber had sick armour great warhead load and decent frontal cannons. though the deve is the best the armour is thick the sheilds thicker and 4 turrets and that mean plasma gun that can take out caps by itself not to mention a great ship killing torpedo load __________________ "Pesimists are the worlds happiest people, most of the time there right, and the times there not, there pleasently surprised." "reality is just an illusion cause by lack of drugs"

08-08-2003, 08:23	#25
Viper61 Major General Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 1,909	alright kiddies . . .here we go. 'Hellcat debris' (though I wouldn't be ale to tell you for sure that its a Hellcat), a Longbow, and a Sabre, all circa 2654. Nathrakh, the hellcat wouldn't be that great not only because of the armament, but the armor. It seems at the time of armada and WC3 a new armor that was measured in 'durasteel equivalent' was introduced, 10 times stronger than durasteel IIRC. The hellcats in Academy definitely do not appear to have this armor, do to a single shot from a Dralthi taking them down (though I like to think anytime this happened in Academy, we just cut directly to the end blow, we just didn't see all the previous hits that weakened the shields and armor ) If I'm incorrect about any of this, I'm sure it will be corrected C-ya Attached Thumbnails __________________ "You only live once, and the way I live, once is enough." - Frank Sinatra

08-08-2003, 08:38	#26
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 25,571	Yup, that's right -- Privateer actually explains the armor... 1 centimeter of Plasteel is the equivalent of 10 centimeters of Durasteel armor. 1 cm of Tungsten is 20 cm eq... and 1 cm of Isometal is 60 cm eq. So a Hornet with 3 cm. of Durasteel armor in 2654 might have 3 cm of isometal in 2654... which would be 180 cm equivalent. (And I'm sure there are even better milspec armors...) __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

08-08-2003, 08:59	#27
Lord_Nathrakh Captain Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 385	hmm why would they change metals and messuremnts so much for? __________________ "Pesimists are the worlds happiest people, most of the time there right, and the times there not, there pleasently surprised." "reality is just an illusion cause by lack of drugs"

08-08-2003, 17:33	#28
DyNaMiX Captain Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Out there. Posts: 404	I'm guessing as they discover new alloys or find abundance of current materials to use. Have to remember there are thousands upon thousands of fighters out there that faught the Kilrathi War. I'm guessing when we saw Scimitars used most instead of Hellcat's it's because of what someone said earlier involving one shot hits. The scimitars did have thick armour and lots of sheilding so they would have been the idle fighter. But there is also another variable we have to remove, one shot kills. It could be that one shot kills ARE what happens and the sheilds are there if you get lucky, or, they didn't want us sitting for longer time periods to watch sheild effects from direct hits all the time. **Possible Spoilers for those who have not seen the entire series** By the way I just finished watching the last episode of the series, and gosh that was spectacular! I loved the entire series of the cartoons and I wish there was more. I enjoyed the closeness of Blair and Tolwyn which soon showed that they would become enemies in the future (end scene).

08-10-2003, 03:59	#29
Lord_Nathrakh Captain Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 385	yeah but why change to so many differnt armour types? doesnt make sence to me.. __________________ "Pesimists are the worlds happiest people, most of the time there right, and the times there not, there pleasently surprised." "reality is just an illusion cause by lack of drugs"

08-10-2003, 04:47	#30
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 25,571	They kept developing armor over thirty years of warfare -- by the end, they had three-plus types available (on the civilian market, none the less). I'm sure that at any given point MilSpec ships were constructed out of only whatever the most recent alloy is. __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

08-10-2003, 05:56	#31
Lord_Nathrakh Captain Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 385	yeah but there all relevent in armour distributiona dn strenght, that 3 cm armour is equiv to 300cm of durasteel, etc, so thats my point why confuse ppl by bring out armour thats basicly the same thing __________________ "Pesimists are the worlds happiest people, most of the time there right, and the times there not, there pleasently surprised." "reality is just an illusion cause by lack of drugs"

08-10-2003, 07:04	#32
Quarto Unknown Enemy Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Poland Posts: 10,562	But if 3 cm of one type of armour is equivalent to 300 cm of another type, then the two types of armour clearly are not the same thing, and therefore, people aren't confused .

08-10-2003, 07:38	#33
vindicator Captain Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 385	I am curious though in the game WC1 it is potrayed that Blair and Marshall meet aboard the Tigers vlaw but in the cartoon and the movie they are kind of rivals how does that work? -Rance- __________________ Never take life too seriously. Not everything is life or death and never miss a chance to make someone laugh.

08-10-2003, 12:05	#36
ChanceKell Captain Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 431	It's also whether you view ever aspect of Wing Commander "cannon," meaning what has been produced, written, and shown is what happened in the WC universe. I, however, view the show and the movie as sort of spinoffs or alternate version. I think the games themselves (and their included supplimental fiction) are law, followed by the books themselves open to personal interpretation and acceptance, and the show and movie are just alternate versions. People who have reasons for the inconsistances I see with the movie and Academy and the games (and they come up with good reasons) view everything as cannon, but that's for the individual fan to decide, really. __________________ "Hey! Hey! Living in a cave is cool! Batman lives in a cave!" - Osama bin Laden (Courtesy, SNL)

08-10-2003, 12:24	#37
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 25,571	Maniac and Blair's friendship/rivalry at the Academy is nothing new (to the TV show or the movie)... it comes from the original Wing Commander official guide, and has been expanded upon in numerous sources since then (among them the WCP ICIS manual and the WC3 novel). __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

08-10-2003, 12:51	#38
overmortal Waffle Commander Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Middle of nowhere, NC, USA Posts: 2,389	I'm noticing, on this board, that there are a few subjects that simply get re-hashed again and again . . . something akin to a cow chewing the cud. The Marshall/Blair meeting is one of them. The movie, with all of its inconsistencies, is another. The Academy show is another (because they kept throwing in so many wc3 ships at the Academy). Personally, I agree with Chancekell. Except for the Blair/Marshall meeting, since the Official book says that they were academy "pals". I think the movie and the animated show were . . . entertaining at best. Not to be taken seriously in the grand scheme of things. Otherwise, some goof is going to show up in a post-prophecy fiction flying a Wild Weasel with a wingman in a Minotaur, and then we'll all end up with a huge headache. __________________ -Nick Blitz Super Sonic Ninja Quest

08-10-2003, 13:21	#39
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 25,571	See, it's because people say things like that that we have to rehash it over and over. (Plus, we're sad sad people with little else to do (G)) __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

08-10-2003, 17:47	#41
overmortal Waffle Commander Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Middle of nowhere, NC, USA Posts: 2,389	When I started coming to this board a month or so ago, I actually had a life. Suddenly, I look around and wonder where it's gone. You guys have ruined me! Now I sit around and look like this: (btw, that's an IBC bottle, not beer. I'm sXe) Here I am. All fat and lazy. Thanks guys. __________________ -Nick Blitz Super Sonic Ninja Quest Last edited by overmortal; 08-10-2003 at 17:55.