Originally posted by Penguin

hence the Marshall Plan for West Germany.
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Eh, I wouldn't use West Germany as the greatest example of the Marshall Plan. It only recieved 11% of the funds as compared with the 25% recieved by Britain and 21% by France. Hell, even Italy got more, with 12%.

(Yeah, I know these things off the top of my head because I'm studying for my Provincial Exams. Ain't it great?)
 
Originally posted by Millzy
that's what they should have done after the first world war... after WW1, they were jsut left to rebuild themselves and try to fix everything... it left germany very bitter... hence WW2... that's about all i remember from that part in Euro histry class... i'm sure there's a lot more detail but it really doesn't matter...
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The problem wasn't as much that they were left to rebuild by themselves. It was more that they were expected to rebuild everyone else as well...
 
Originally posted by junior


There's also another important difference that you didn't mention. IIRC, the Behemoth could theoretically be used against any planet (provided you could get it into range, of course). The Temblor bomb, in comparison, could only be used against seismicly unstable planets, and Kilrah just happened to fit the bill.
If the Kilrathi had decided to keep fighting after the destruction of Kilrah (and hadn't lost their fleet in orbit over Kilrah), the Confederation would have had a serious problem. Even if they could have slipped Blair and a bomb into the atmosphere of other planets, they would have had to be fairly choosey about which planets they used the bomb on. There's no guarantee that the next world the Kilrathi decided to use as their capital would be vulnerable to the bomb.
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There's also no gaurantee that the Kilrathi wouldn't commit their fleet to ripping the Behemoth to shreds once they knew what it could do. (As in fact did happen.) The Behemoth takes years to build, and is pretty darn hard to hide when you're jumping in into an enemy system. Or for that matter, that once you start blowing up thir planets, they're not going to saturate ours with bio-weapons and strontium warheads. Those things pretty much cancel out the "repeat performance" value of the Behemoth. I think the idea that the Kilrathi would let us blow up their planets one by one is a little far fetched.

Best, Raptor
 
I'd tend to agree with TC, that he wasn't really behind it-he was looking for it as a way to win both of those scenarios. However, I think he knew about Paladin's group coming up with a super weapon. (Whether he knew what it was or not, I don't know.) But this is just from my memory of WC3, which I've not played in many a year. And my memory is bad. :)

Actually, the Behemoth acted much in the same way the Temblor worked, I believe. I don't think it was some super-"we can destroy any planet everywhere" weapon, I think it too could only be used on planets that weren't really techtonically stable. (That's why they wanted to "show" what it could do.) However, this too comes from my memory of WC3-and it's probably wrong too. :p
 
Why would anyone destroy a star? Blowing up a star -- especially in the Wing Commander universe where jump lines are created by the gravity of stars -- would be an incredibly dumb thing to do.

I can't think of a single situation where anyone would ever need to blow up a star.
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Why would anyone destroy a star? Blowing up a star -- especially in the Wing Commander universe where jump lines are created by the gravity of stars -- would be an incredibly dumb thing to do.

I can't think of a single situation where anyone would ever need to blow up a star.
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Yet wouldn't the destruction of a planet be sufficient to disrupt the gravitational forces in the system enough to affect a jump route in some way?
 
Originally posted by BlueClaw
Was the Behemoth capable of destroying stars?
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Unknown. It might, but then again, it might not. A star like Sol is as massive as 350,000 Earths, and would likely require alot more power to blow up than a single planet.

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Why would anyone destroy a star? Blowing up a star -- especially in the Wing Commander universe where jump lines are created by the gravity of stars -- would be an incredibly dumb thing to do.

I can't think of a single situation where anyone would ever need to blow up a star.
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How about if an enemy-held system had way too many targets to use the Behemoth effectively as a planet-killer? For example, if the Kilrathi had a system with two or three heavily inhabited planets, military bases on more than a dozen moons, and dozens of spacebourne stations spread through the system. It would probably be simpler just to make the system's sun go supernova and destroy everything at once.

As for messing with gravity, after a supernova, 98% of the matter is still there, only it has been scattered about. Likely, any jump points close to the star would get messed up since there is now a nebula with a pulsar in the middle instead of the original star, but ones farther away might stay intact.
 
Originally posted by Skyfire
...humanity win on a more "full scale invasion" level...
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Much like the Confed conquest of the Vega Sector in WC1. That was a fair victory. :)

Originally posted by TC
He only supported [the Behemoth project] because it was the only solution he knew of at the time that would end the war before Belisarius could take over or the Kilrathi would win.
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Having not read the novels, the Belisarius is the group I'm most hazy on. Briefly, if possible, who were the Belisarius, and what were their motives? Or do we know so little of them because the False Colors trilogy was never completed?

Originally posted by junior
IIRC, the Behemoth could theoretically be used against any planet (provided you could get it into range, of course). The Temblor bomb, in comparison, could only be used against seismically unstable planets, and Kilrah just happened to fit the bill.
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AFAIK, the Behemoth also depended on some degree of tectonic instability. [Hmm, think someone else already said that.]

Originally posted by BlueClaw
Yet wouldn't the destruction of a planet be sufficient to disrupt the gravitational forces in the system enough to affect a jump route in some way?
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Not sure if Kilrah jump points were affected...

Originally posted by Ijuin
A star like Sol is as massive as 350,000 Earths, and would likely require alot more power to blow up than a single planet.
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Don't think it'd happen. You're just shooting a ball of energy into an even bigger ball of nuclear fusion. No tectonics to speak of.
 
Originally posted by Wedge009
Having not read the novels, the Belisarius is the group I'm most hazy on. Briefly, if possible, who were the Belisarius, and what were their motives? Or do we know so little of them because the False Colors trilogy was never completed?
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The gist of it is that they were a secret conspiracy to gain complete military control of the Confederation. Instead of handing power back to the civilian government at the end of the war, they wanted to tighten the military grip. It consisted of a number of top military officers and all kinds of random other people.
 
How about if an enemy-held system had way too many targets to use the Behemoth effectively as a planet-killer? For example, if the Kilrathi had a system with two or three heavily inhabited planets, military bases on more than a dozen moons, and dozens of spacebourne stations spread through the system. It would probably be simpler just to make the system's sun go supernova and destroy everything at once.

As for messing with gravity, after a supernova, 98% of the matter is still there, only it has been scattered about. Likely, any jump points close to the star would get messed up since there is now a nebula with a pulsar in the middle instead of the original star, but ones farther away might stay intact.
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We know that when stars are destroyed their jump points disappear...

... furthermore, where exactly do you intent to *position* a weapon which would be fired at a star...?

My initial, non-sarcastic response should have been: we don't know if Behemoth can destroy even tectonically *stable* planets. We can be pretty sure it can't destroy a star.
 
if a star would be destroyed, the possibility of a black hole forming also exists, taking this into account and comparing the way a jump point functions, it seems very likely to me that the jump point would have a black hole like effect on the traveller.

DEATH WILL OCCUR
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF

My initial, non-sarcastic response should have been: we don't know if Behemoth can destroy even tectonically *stable* planets. We can be pretty sure it can't destroy a star.
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Was the planet the Behemoth destroyed in the test run even tectonically unstable in the first place?
 
mmhh what if we think like this, the reaction in a star provides enough energy for the star not to collapse under it's own gravity created under it's immense mass, If the behemoth would fire a shot at a star, the energy balance would most definitely be disturbed, the nuclear reaction within the star would be accelerated and high solar flares would wipe out all communication (ideal for a surprise attack) furthermore, the likeliness of the star returning to a stable condition seems not very likely..........


my humble views
 
So... in order to prepare for a surprise attack you'll send THE LARGEST SHIP IN THE FLEET into the innter portion of the enemy system?
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
So... in order to prepare for a surprise attack you'll send THE LARGEST SHIP IN THE FLEET into the innter portion of the enemy system?
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yeah, cloaked of course. I'm merely saying that a shot at the systems star would have several beneficial effects for the attacker
 
Um...I somehow don't see anything that sized being cloaked. Unless your using that sensor jamming device that hid the starbase in WC4-and should that be true, you wouldn't really need to cloak it in any event. Nor would you need to take out communications-as it already disabled most electronic systems.
 
that wasn't really the point. I was just merely suggesting the beneficial effect of shooting a systems star, when Bandit LOAF pointed out my mistake, and I thought cloaking it would be a good idea. The star would become unstable, maybe even turn into a pulsar (very high gravitational forces and intense radiation) or even a black hole which would tear the entire system apart.. even is this wouldn't happen, increased solar flares would indeed disrupt all communication, all electrical systems would be affected basically, but it probably wouldn't be temporary, the entire fleet will just sit there and slowley die....

lets leave this subject for what it is... :)
 
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