[Twister]

***Twister, where did you get that? Just because it's the largest ship right now doesn't make it a flagship***

i know that, but i belife it's in the prophacy manual somewere...

------------------
When I'm in the air...
I'm indestructible.
No one can stop me...
But they try.
Realy WC fans support the WCSCRP

 

[Quarto]

Twister: It's not. There is no such thing as a flagship for Confed.

Death's Head: Of course he is, and I happen to agree with him

. I for one do not like it when the fate of the universe depends on me and me alone. To much stress, you know

.

 

[Earthworm]

Gee Earthworm, next you'll be complaining about SO's "six pilots destroy the Nephilem fleet all by themselves" scenario

.

Actualy SO was a little more belivable. You're on a cruiser, not a carrier, there are many missions in which you cooperate with other capships and fighters (I just love the missions with Excals and T-bolts. Shame we didn't get to fly them). So Casey and his friends didn't destroy the whole thing by themeslves, just most of it.

DH, I played that mission on Nightmare, and the two cruisers died at about the same time. First the cat cruiser went up in flames, but the few remaing antimatter bolts hit the Ajax and it blew up seconds later. That's what happens when me and my Excalibur aren't around to help.

[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited April 30, 2000).]

 

[Quarto]

I could count the cooperative missions on my fingers, Earthworm. Most missions were just Casey & Co. Ah, well. Better an unrealistic SO than no SO, eh?

But considering how often we saw those Excals and T-Bolts go down, I really don't think you want to fly them

. Then again, I'd love to fly a Ferret, and that's practically asking for one of those fancy coffins with thrusters

. But hey, at least a Ferret isn't a coffin, unlike a certain Epee

.

 

[Earthworm]

I could count the cooperative missions on my fingers, Earthworm.

Realy? I seem to recal there being more than 10. Oh well, another excuse to replay it.

Most missions were just Casey & Co. Ah, well. Better an unrealistic SO than no SO, eh?

True, even though unrealistic, it has some great gameplay.

But considering how often we saw those Excals and T-Bolts go down, I really don't think you want to fly them

.

It's all because of the damn AI. Those two ships could hold their own in a fight against bugs, if they had pilots that can make use of them. Even with it's thin armor, the Excal has 300cm of shields, and 6 medium/heavy guns.

Then again, I'd love to fly a Ferret, and that's practically asking for one of those fancy coffins with thrusters

. But hey, at least a Ferret isn't a coffin, unlike a certain Epee

.

Well than, go and play WC2. Or did you forgot to take your games to China with you?

The Ferret is a great fighter though. Probably my favorite light fighter. The Nagitana from SL reminds me of it.

 

[Quarto]

Well than, go and play WC2. Or did you forgot to take your games to China with you?

My KSaga is sitting in the barra... er... my room... back in Australia. I prefer to travel light, so I decided to <gasp> leave my WCs behind. Heck, I'm only here until the 14th. Then it's back to Aus, and back to uni. And now it's back to sleep.

 

[Death's Head]

When half the Confed fleet engaged the Kilrathi home fleet, the Bengal class Wolfhound was flagship, that's the only reference I found so far.

I tend to agree, a half-dozen pilots get something like 1800 kills, more or less. even if it were 180, that's a 30 to 1 kill ratio, and Confed pilots hardly died when I played.

I flew the Excalibur for several missions, it handled favorably, and the guns did well. The only problem I see is the gun recharge is piss poor.

 

[Chernikov]

Has anyone considered porting WCP ships back into WC3 or WC4? It sounds stupid but crank up the shields and armor and you just might have some sweet capship battles (so youd have to tweak the game a little so it could take the bigger ships. It would still be fun, and think about the fireworks. Wouldnt matter what part of the U.S. you were in then...

)

------------------
I don't respect your authority BECAUSE YOU HAVE NONE!!!

 

[Meson]

Has anyone considered porting WCP ships back into WC3 or WC4? It sounds stupid but crank up the shields and armor and you just might have some sweet capship battles (so youd have to tweak the game a little so it could take the bigger ships. It would still be fun, and think about the fireworks. Wouldnt matter what part of the U.S. you were in then...

)

The problem with this is backward capability. The WCP ships has stats and details that weren't presence in the older games. Nor would the games have the programming to handle the ships.



------------------
Robert "Meson" Stukowski

Wing Commander is more than just a game. It is a lifestyle.

 

[Death's Head]

Aye, that's a fair point Meson, but couldn't we exchange a ship with a new ship of sorts using the earlier requirements, add a converted model and add it to the tre? I haven't edited in a while so I really have no idea. I think you're right, I doubt it can be done.

 

[Death's Head]

Capships aren't like fighters in SO. SO conversions are essentially big fighters. Only a few people have been able to figuire out the capship shields for SO and make them work on new ships. I don't know how the earlier engines worked, but in SO, there seems to be a restriction on the ships we can make, they have up to 6 turrets. I don't think anyone has figuired out how to make a capship with capship missiles. I know you can make a missile look like one if you have the model and mats and crank up the damage, but they don't damage capships like the real missiles do for the bugs.

Then again, maybe someone figuired out how to do some of this stuff, but I don't know who.

 

[LeHah]

I really don't like the Midway for two reasons: first off, they killed off Hamill cheaply and I, being of the IMHFC (International Mark Hamill Fan Club), really don't like Hamill going out cheaply. Come on people, Blair can take a planetary shockwave in a (state of the art) fighter but he can't survive a goddamned Cap attack?

The other thing is, I'm sick to death of "Uber-weapons" like Midway and planet-killers and a lot of other crap as of recent. Our society has really forgotten that what makes a character cool is in what he/she DOESN'T do.

Think of "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" for example. Clint Eastwood/The Man With No Name: One of the biggest b*d*sses in film history and not because he can do tricks with his gun or shoot fast but because he'll stand there and WAIT. Kids and a lot of teenagers (I'm speaking as one) don't understand that it's not how many bullets you can rumble off of a Duel Reaper Cannon or even how accurate you are with it (one shot kills are one shot kills!) but the fact of character resolve and detail. Why is Han Solo so cool? Not jsut because he can fly the coolest ship in Star Wars, but because of his own personality and mythos.

Remember: "When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk."

 

[Quarto]

<Sigh> When does the hurting stop?

Blair was not killed off cheaply. He simply died. What the hell would YOUR odds of survival be, if a 7+ foot bug fell on your head? Now, you talk about how superweapons suck, and about how what a character doesn't do matters. And yet, you would have Blair act like some friggin' immortal?

-------------------------------

"Commodore Blair! You're alive!" Exclaimed Casey, staring in shock at the figure standing in the doorway.
"Well, ya know..." Blair replied in a nonchalant fashion, "them bugs ain't so tough." He spat out a black, chitinous appendage, and grinned. "Why, did you really think that they could get me, the Hero of Kilrah? I survived a planetary shockwave, you know. So it takes a hell of a lot more than a huge bug dropping on my head, an alien virus, and a huge explosion to get me."
"But... how did you get back? I mean, your shuttle was destroyed. I saw it blow up when the gateway collapsed."
"So?" Chris Blair shrugged. "I walked."

--------------------------------

I believe that is what you wanted, LeHah?

 

[No Regret]

Well, he could have gone out more heroically...
Like blow himself up with the tower or something, or get killed while making a last stand in the tower with his gun running low on bullets and more bug reinforcements descending upon his position.

LeHah: Damn strait about Blondie/The Man with No Name.

------------------
The time is near.
There are still quite a few days remaining.

I don't care for fame, power or money...
I just want to FIGHT!
-Sanosuke Sagara

 

[LeHah]

Wait Quatro. Don't start putting words in my mouth yet.

I didn't say I had a problem with Blair dead. Hell no. Dead is dead and I'll be damned before acknowledging ANYONE bringing him back to life. It seems there are no pearly gates, only revolving doors, in the world of sci-fi sometimes.

Blair could've gone out a much much better way than what was allotted, is all I'm saying. As for your somewhat odd meandering dialouge on "Now, you talk about how
superweapons suck, and about how what a character doesn't do matters. And
yet, you would have Blair act like some friggin' immortal?" is something of a contradiction on your behalf. If anything, I'm saying the elimination of superweapons and lots of state-of-the-art bullsh*t, might lead to more characterization and less garbage with the male "Bigger is Better" ideals.


------------------
"The Way of the Samurai is in desperateness.
Ten men or more cannot kill such a man.
Common sense will not accomplish great things.
Simply become insane and desperate."
-Yamamoto Tsunetomo, "Hagakure"

 

[Quarto]

Well, no, actually the contradiction was all yours. The way I see it, if Blair was either to survive or to die in a more heroic fashion, he would BE a superweapon, rather than a proper character. Which would be very sad. Now, think about it. Do all heroes die in last stands? That would be totally unrealistic, and I'd have to object as much as I object to anybody even considering bringing him back (I'm glad you agree on that at least, or I'd have to kill ya

) to life. Most heroes actually die of old age. And I don't think you'd be very happy to find out that Blair caught a nasty cold and died because his body's natural defences ain't what they used to be

.
So, don't complain of how he died. As a matter of fact, he died very, very heroically.

 

[LeHah]

Ok, then allow me to retort and rephrase myself: I think Blair should've died more properly and in a better way, like, say, shoving a fighter down the throat of a carrier or the like. Blair was a pilot, not an officer and I refuse to acknowledge most of what happened in WCP as reality. WC ended with WC4 and that's it. Forstchen didn't write any books on it, the reviews were mild and the story was very slim. Too silm. Hell, I LOVED WC4 for it's consistant video use, even when people were hazing it 'cuz it took away flying time.

I do agree that war heros go out quietly. It's good that they do, no one can fight forever. Especially not Blair, after Angel's death, a divorce from Rachel and (in the novel) a May-December relationship with Sosa, countless friends and people (and, depending on the game, cartoon or movie, dead parents in variable fashions or alive parents that are no where to be heard), and the weight of the destruction of Behemoth and Concordia on his back. That's not something easily brushed off.

All I'll say is that Blair is Blair is Blue Hair goddamn it and I didn't play 4 games, 2 add-ons and read every book (minus End Run) just to watch him go out like that! :-p

------------------
"The Way of the Samurai is in desperateness.
Ten men or more cannot kill such a man.
Common sense will not accomplish great things.
Simply become insane and desperate."
-Yamamoto Tsunetomo, "Hagakure"

 

[Death's Head]

First of all it's Quarto, not Qautro

Second, The warlord looked like it was still dangling from the ceiling like Maniac who just had a rat put in his bunk.
Thirdly, only that SO fiction said there was a funeral, which I still haven't read. Lots of people get funerals, like war vets only to turn up living in the far east.
Lastly, I'm not one to insist Blair's alive, or really, really should be, but it would be better if you had a more active part rather than having saved his butt in the games only to watch him go missing with nothing you could do about it. At first I wondered if Blair should have been killed when Casey blew up the last tower, but instead of getting out of there, the smart thing, he started to have a leisurely look around and he got himself killed, or at least got himself extended leave.

 

[Quarto]

Oh, give me a break, LeHah. What, does every old pilot have to ram his fighter down the throat of a carrier?

[Blair]Is this what I have to do to earn people's respect around here?[/Blair]

Now, look. He died inside an alien base, saving the universe as we know it. You can't get more heroic than that. Who cares if he didn't die in the cockpit? Would such a death make him more of a pilot, or more of a hero in your eyes?
Oh, and nobody wrote novels for WC1 or WC2 (well... yet) either. And WC1's story was also fairly slim, and neither used video at all. Do you also refuse to acknowledge them?

Death's Head:
Blair wasn't a pilot in WCP, and rightly so, since he was a dinosaur (let's ignore the fact that he and Maniac are just about the same age

). He was an officer in the Research Division, and certainly he wouldn't normally play an active role in a military campaign any more.

 

[Death's Head]

But I didn't say Blair, I said you, and you at the time are Casey.

Maybe something like this:
Blair without his pistol, "Damn old bones, I can't even stand up strait and shoot a pistol anymore." The alian warlord blocks Blair's path to the Marine LC, standing strait up, over 12 feet tall, with his large forearms writhing about."Casey..."Blair pleads into his intercom,"You have to take out the last tower, now."
Shocked by this, Casey whines"But you'll be killed..."
"The aliens are coming through as we speak, there's no time for me to get out of here, do it Casey, for humanity"
Facing the large creature, awaiting his fate, with tachyon bolts pounding the tower armor..."So, you thought no one here could stop you?"Blair defiantly mocks the being who has ensured his death, at long last death had caught up with Blair, but he has made the ultimate sacrifice for his people.
In a dry shrill voice the alien replies: "This time, warrior we have become your prey, next time...you will be ours."
Blair motions for the warlord to come closer, and makes one last pride-filled remark, "Screw you."
The already swealtering humidity was getting worse rapidly as Casey's guns finally broke through the tower hull. The Wormhole gate breaks up rapidly, with some reinforcement arms balsted away from the wormhole, while others are pulled in. The arms of a new alien dreadnought break through the event-horizon just as the gate is rendered no more than floating pieces of a broken ring. The circle is broken, the Nephillim hold on Kilrathi space in finally broken. A support arm from the wormhole gate smashes into one of the dreadnought tentacles, severing the powerful forward plasma weapon from the monster ship. The wormhole callapses in on itself, shearing off the rest of the long dreadnought arms, and crushes in alien command ship with massive gravitational forces. And then, there is silence.

Something like that? Edited and reworked, of course.