[Marcml30]

Originally posted by RFBurns
What would make WC different and more appealing than say FS or FS2 would in fact be the storyline and yes the FMV's. But what do you do after finishing the single play game and theres no multi play capabilities?

I'm not arguing that MP adds life to a game. My concern is only that the developers would sacrifice plot for MP. You have to admit that MP games don't have a lot of plot. The only MP game I ever really got into was Red Baron II. But in that case I ONLY played online and yes, eventually it got boring too. I'd rather have a GREAT SP game than a so-so SP game w/ MP capabilities.

But these other games that have CGI cutscenes dont employ that interactivity, but that is proof that the movie or cutscene is not the games point of sale, it is more like just another part of it if you look at the current games with FMV or CGI cutscenes.

I don't know, these games have failed to knock WC off as the game-to-beat. It seems as though every space sim is still compared to WC. And if you consider that WCs flight model and AI were so-so at best can't we point to something else as the reason for WC begin the game that everyone gets compared to? I'm not saying that the FMVs were the only reason, more that the entire package (FMV included) caused the game to be great.

What makes those games continue to be played and sold is the multi player capabilities... Besides, if EA didnt think that a game with multi play capability would fly, why is there UO? Must mean something eh!

Apples and oranges. I don't think that UO has any single player feature, does it? Its a MP only game with zero story as I understand it and appeals to a different gaming crowd.

[Edited by Marcml30 on 03-29-2001 at 15:11]

 

[RFBurns]

The man is a fool. The two have nothing in common.

To a hardcore WC fan maybe. But I can understand his point of view. Which by the way he was a hardcore fan. He got disgruntled about no multi play in WCP. He still has all his WC collection which ranges from action figures to the novels and the animated stuff and original copies of the games with all the packaging etc. I think he still keeps up with the fiction novels. But unlike you or I, he does not load up WCIV to replay it nor does he load up any of the WC games cause to him, they have no multiplay. It amazes me how some here get defensive about putting multi play into a new WC game. Is it because some would not last long in a human vs human multi play game or has everyone gotten so used to the single mode and dont expect any future WC game to have multi play capabilities? What would be the situation had Privateer Online been a reality? Would the reaction be different? Budget wise, EA wouldnt spend any more on having multi code in a WC game than they spend on all the FMV stuff. And to say that quality would get set aside for multi capabilities just means that they need more time to complete the game, and not put such time restraints on getting it out so fast they leave out key things like exploding cap ships, interactivity in the FMV's, more rooms to roam in on the carrier than just a bar, locker room and briefing room. FS and FS2 had no rooms to roam in other than the landing bay, options screen and tech room. Neither had interactivity in the CGI cutscenes or interacitvity in the rooms like WC has, but those games continue to survive not just because of a dedicated fan base, but because it has elements in it that will attract new players as well, such as the multi play. I for one hope they incorporate multi capability into the next WC game. If the game maker just throws something out there with no general idea of what the buying public wants, it will be like some of these other games that are quoted by reviews and magazines as "the best game no one played" or something like that. WC indeed is my favorite game even tho there isnt any multiplayer capabilities other than Armada and Proving Grounds. But if that old game has it, then why doesnt the rest of them have it. Movie budget eat it up? Bad net coding? If it werent for the dedicated fan base and sites like this one, where do you think WC would be? Obviously EA has no plans to continue WC at this time, nor had they any plans after SO was released. They concentrated on UO, which is a multi player game. Everyone is saying, the next WC game will have to have something inovative to make it stand out. I agree with this completely. So based on all this and what is there in WC, would another FMV make it inovative? Would fancier graphics make it inovative? I seriously doubt it, but I would bet multiplayer capability would help it alot and make it somewhat inovative since the last game of WC to have multi code was Armada!

RFBurns

 

[TC]

Umm... except you're giving time as a reason for things that it has nothing to do with. Lack of rooms didn't have to do with time... Nor did choices in the movies.

Also, time is money and, unfourtunately, EA doesn't give OSI an infinate amount to use on Wing Commander.

Multiplayer capabilities aren't hated by people... lots of people loved Armada's mp component. Unfourtunately multiplayer takes away the storyline that most people play for. It's also hard for everyone to play the hero in a multiplayer game, which is part of what makes the games fun.
TC

 

[TC]

Why are you always so mean to crackheads

TC

 

[RFBurns]

No, what I meant by time restraint is corporate big wigs looking at nothing but the profit margin while slicing out little elements that make the game more enhanced. Example would be WCIV vs WCP. There was tons of interactivity in WCIV than in WCP. We all know EA/OSI cut the budget for WCP and took out scenes, elements in flight such as exploding cap ships. Although they (programmers) wanted to include those things, what killed those elements was...ok heres the drumroll...deadline and budget cuts, which a deadline is a time restraint matter. Plus the cut in the budget which also had an effect on those little elements everyone is crying for or asking why wasnt this in there. At least in WCP, the Kilrathi cap ship blows apart. But that is the only cap ship that actually blows up! The wormhole doesnt even blow up into pieces either. I suppose its all a trade off, lots of things in a game vs meeting budget and deadlines. They (EA) could learn something from how FS and FS2 and Descent 3 came out. Those had multi play plus storyline and plot plus easy interface to add external missions made by fans without the use of some program that alters the game to allow external missions. Of course none of those had the actors, sets, cameras, which those Panaflex cameras cost about 3 grand a day to rent and that does not include the 35mm film nor lens! Its no wonder when you shoot something over a 6 to 10 week period, that budget would get eaten up real quick. I just hope that if and when a new WC game hits the market, it will have something other than what we already have seen in previous WC games as well as others out there now that will make it "inovative"

RFBurns

 

[RFBurns]

That's just silly. If he was a real fan he'd enjoy a game of Wing Commander IV any day. People become dedicated Wing Commander fans because they get involved in the story. Although Wing Commander has always looked good, it's never been the biggest selling point. I'd love another multiplayer WC. I want Privateer Online more than anything. But that doesn't mean I no longer enjoy the games we have. The person you're talking about is either fictious, or he only played Wing Commander because of the bells and whistles. Or maybe he's a crackhead.

Well not everyone has the same opinions as a CIC admin. Maybe he is a crackhead, maybe not. But this is America where people can decide on what is good for them and what isnt. Like I said before, he still has all that stuff and just because he dont play it over and over and over again to a point he could recite every characters lines or draw you pictures of every scene blindfolded, dont mean hes no less a fan than you or I. He, like many others out there, maybe even you, would like to see that inovative something that will really bring back WC in a huge way. As for myself, I continue to play them over and over and over again cause I am a dedicated fan. But does it make me or him less of a fan if they (games) are put away to explore a space sim made by another company that heard the public, which by the way was mostly WC fans. In fact, he told me that once there is a real multi play WC game, he would give away all his other sims he purchased and play nothing but WC. He still is a fan. Just not as heavy into it as you or I.

RFBurns

 

[Marcml30]

Originally posted by RFBurns
It amazes me how some here get defensive about putting multi play into a new WC game. Is it because some would not last long in a human vs human multi play game or has everyone gotten so used to the single mode and dont expect any future WC game to have multi play capabilities?

Hey! Thems fightin words! I've got nothing against MP games. I enjoyed playing RB2 online - it was great for a while but like most games interest lagged after awhile. The people I know that are heavy into MP ONLY play MP and largely ignore the single play. My fear of a MP WC game probably comes from the fact that I haven't been impressed with the single player aspects of most MP flight games.

And to say that quality would get set aside for multi capabilities just means that they need more time to complete the game, and not put such time restraints on getting it out so fast they leave out key things like exploding cap ships, interactivity in the FMV's, more rooms to roam in on the carrier than just a bar, locker room and briefing room.

Again, my fear is that by trying to do too much on too many things they will only succeed in doing too little on the things that count.

And come on, it's easy to say "schedule doesn't matter" but you realize that they have to pay people for a product that isn't bringing in any money (and might not). Battlecruiser 3000 comes to mind. There's no such thing as in infinite budget or development time.

I would bet multiplayer capability would help it alot and make it somewhat inovative since the last game of WC to have multi code was Armada!

Adding MP won't make it innovative. Another MP "Race for the flag" or "deathmatch" won't impress me at all - it's been done way too often.

 

[RFBurns]

I meant he is like LOAF with the collection of WC stuff. I wasnt trying to match personalities or life styles. It was just the amount of WC items he has collected. He has so much stuff, way more than I do, that I just mentioned he was like LOAF with tons and tons of WC items.

RFBurns

 

[RFBurns]

But adding MP to WC wouldnt hurt it any would it? The other games that had MP did run out of steam, but thats why mods came out such as Counter Strike for Half-Life, Arena for Quake 2, which evolved into Quake 3 Arena, MP only. I agree that just adding MP to WC wont make it inovative, but think of what could be added just by putting in MP. Think of the possiblities with mods, ships and their markings. It would be neat to play a round of MP team fortress in a space environment, protecting a base or planets flag. The possibilities could be awsome! Oh and the bases actually explode to pieces as well as capships and planets! Now thats some fun!

RFBurns

[Edited by RFBurns on 03-29-2001 at 17:03]

 

[Marcml30]

Agreed. It would be cool and it would extend the life of the game but lets remember to tell the developers that the SP part of the game is the most important. From what I read of Priv Online, THAT looked like an innovative MP game. My feeling is that either you're into the MP environ or not. As you can see, I'm one of the nots.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Most of the WC fans around now aren't into MP... remember, though, that MP was originally promised for WCP -- despite the teams insistences that it *could not* be completed in time for the deadline, EA continue to advertise it until the very end.

If you want to play MP WC, play Armada -- there really isn't anything else to *do* with a real person.

 

[RFBurns]

Ya I think letting EA/OSI know we still want the single play element to the next WC game. I dont think adding multi would hamper the single play quality as long as we fans let EA/OSI know its still important. Personally I love single play games, even if they dont have any MP capability. As to me still playing WC, well I have 4 machines ranging from a simple 486dx2/66 running dos 5.0 hosting WCI and II original, a p133 running dos 6.0 which hosts WCIII and Armada and Academy just fine, a p233mmx which runs win95 and hosts the speed adjusted cd version of Privateer and RF and WCIV with the dos boot, then the p2 300 which runs win95 and hosts WCP and SO. In the process of building my new game monster which will be a p4 based machine. I just mentioned all this so everyone here wont think I am not a true WC fan, cause I am!

RFBurns

 

[RFBurns]

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Most of the WC fans around now aren't into MP... remember, though, that MP was originally promised for WCP -- despite the teams insistences that it *could not* be completed in time for the deadline, EA continue to advertise it until the very end.

If you want to play MP WC, play Armada -- there really isn't anything else to *do* with a real person.

Funny you mention that, cause I play that alot with the next door neighbor who sits at one machine while Im at another and we go thru a few rounds via ipx in Proving Grounds. Love my LAN!!

RFBurns

 

[Bandit LOAF]

You can set up a 486 to play Armada with for less than the cost of a new game: WORTH IT!

 

[Michael_A]

I happen to recall an article from PC-Gamer magazine in which they interviewed a member of the WCP development team. This was shortly after the release of WCP I think. He talked about the next Wing Commander Game (yea right) and creating an online Wing Commander universe sort of like UO. Anyone else remember something like this. I really can't recall the details of the article and I don't have the mag anymore.

 

[Marcml30]

Now that might be innovative.

 

[Excelsis]

I've played Star Craft Multiplayer, and Quake, and MP is boring. Big deal you find the guy or he finds you (quake) Big deal you build a base quicker than your opponent. (SC) The thing that made WC special was the plot. Who knew that Jazz was going to be a traitor? Who knew that Hobbes was a double agent? How can you hope to match the thrill of seeing Kilrah explode with flying against someone else. If MP is to be used, squadron against squadron, is the way to go. That way a pilot can distinguish himself/herself in the midst of huge combat situations. Perhaps with real time comms through headsets. Now that would be awesome! Personal Note: I'm afraid that none of you alone would be that much of a challenge anyway. <grin>